What Should Be the Ideal Size of Germany?

It was to bypass Danzig altogether. The city itself was occupied, but it was guaranteed the ability to manage its own affairs - it was de jure independent, but it was treated like a Polish colony. Gdynia was to bypass the Germans in Danzig altogether.
To better explain my point: If Poland was the de-facto controller of Danzig there would be no need to bypass it.
Yes, but I had specified that it was 6 years of death camps, to which I was told that '6 years' was incorrect.
To better explain my point: "These 6 years" referred to the period of death camps. While it was the most blatant example of oppression it was not the sole example. Reducing the issue to the 6 years of death camps risks white-washing another examples. (It is insulting the same way as dismissing Allied crimes during WWII and reducing the WWII atrocities to the ones commited by Germany.)
 

Inhato

Banned
Are you referring to only Polish Pomerania
To the Polish Pomerania which was majority Polish.

I never said that "Germans didn't abuse Poles".
You said that Germans in Poznan in 1945 harmed nobody. This is untrue, as many were colonists, participated in Nazi administration that engaged in genocide of Poland or supported atrocities in 1939.
However, the German who had lived in Posen his entire life, and his family had lived there, had every right to live there.
By that logic if Hitler would exterminate Poles in Warsaw, than Germans would have right to own it. You are legitimizing conquering other nations.
Also does it mean you would prefer death penalty for Polish citizens of German descent who collaborated with Nazi regime instead of population transfer? Because if he lived whole life there he was subject to Polish law and Polish citizen...
De jure, no. De facto, yes.
Your opinion. A very fringe one, and not shared by any mainstream historian or international law scholar.

Many Poles voted to stay in Germany.
And many Germans voted to go to Poland but were forced to stay in Upper Silesia. And your point is?
Should their wishes have also been denied, due to the desires of Polish revanchists?
A question-are there German revanchists?

Your claim is that it was "right" to remove him, because his ancestors MAY have forcefully removed Poles
You are forgetting that Poles were removed in 1939 to make room for 2 million German colonists and administration, not by some "ancestors".

Also, just because someone speaks Polish doesn't meant they wanted to be in Poland
Just as if somebody speaks German doesn't mean he wants to live in Germany. Again, your point?
Officially, Poland wasn't a "state" as we know it today either
Officially Poland was always Poland. The Polish state officially views itself as continuation of Piast Poland, Commonwealth and Second Republic. Sure the government type changed, but it remained Poland.

Not going to respond until you read the ENTIRE sentence and see why your response isn't worth a further response.
Your claim that Germans in Posen didn't contain people were guilty of anything was proven false(of course I accept that there was some tiny minority not involved with atrocities and Nazism, the Gestapo reports IIRC speak about a couple of hundred Germans with good relations with Poles out of 700.000). If you don't want to respond, your problem. But your claim has no basis in historical facts, quite opposite.



simply because no one appears to be defending against the expulsions in any sensible way
If you want the Germans to stay rather than go to Germany-the consequences will be trial for collaboration with organisation plotting extermination of Polish nation for those involved with Nazism....
 
Are you referring to only Polish Pomerania
To the Polish Pomerania which was majority Polish.

You said that Germans in Poznan in 1945 harmed nobody. This is untrue, as many were colonists, participated in Nazi administration that engaged in genocide of Poland or supported atrocities in 1939.

That's not what I said. I said that not all Germans in Posen had harmed the Polish. I'm not going to talk with you if you are going to consistently misrepresent what I say or "twist" my words to fit in attacks against me.

By that logic if Hitler would exterminate Poles in Warsaw, than Germans would have right to own it. You are legitimizing conquering other nations.
Also does it mean you would prefer death penalty for Polish citizens of German descent who collaborated with Nazi regime instead of population transfer? Because if he lived whole life there he was subject to Polish law and Polish citizen...

Again, stop misrepresenting my position. I am serious. You continually are shifting what I say from "people didn't deserve to be killed" to "Germans didn't deserve to be killed". You seem to be insinuating further that I am some kind of Neo-Nazi, which is hilarious given that I am: a, Jewish, and b, Polish (just not nationalist nor in Poland). Not a -single- time have I defended German atrocities, but I will not have you defend Soviet and Polish atrocities.

Your opinion. A very fringe one, and not shared by any mainstream historian or international law scholar.

Well, perhaps your bastardized idea of what my opinion is. I am not sure if you are incapable of understanding what I write or are purposefully misrepresenting it to slander me.

And many Germans voted to go to Poland but were forced to stay in Upper Silesia. And your point is?

The numbers disagree. I know of no Germans who voted to leave Germany, but I know of many Poles who voted to remain.

A question-are there German revanchists?

What does that have to do with anything? I am certain there are, just as there are still Polish revanchists who want to annex territories like Pomerania, Brandenburg, and Saxony simply because they were "once Polish".

You are forgetting that Poles were removed in 1939 to make room for 2 million German colonists and administration, not by some "ancestors".

I didn't forget anything, it's merely irrelevant. There were Germans living there as well before that.

Just as if somebody speaks German doesn't mean he wants to live in Germany. Again, your point?

I ask what YOURS is.

Officially Poland was always Poland. The Polish state officially views itself as continuation of Piast Poland, Commonwealth and Second Republic. Sure the government type changed, but it remained Poland.

If the Kingdom of Poland constituted Poland, than the Kingdom of Germany under the HRE constituted Germany. I doubt that the Lithuanians would consider the Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth to be "Poland".

Your claim that Germans in Posen didn't contain people were guilty of anything was proven false(of course I accept that there was some tiny minority not involved with atrocities and Nazism, the Gestapo reports IIRC speak about a couple of hundred Germans with good relations with Poles out of 700.000). If you don't want to respond, your problem. But your claim has no basis in historical facts, quite opposite.

That wasn't my claim. Stop misrepresenting me. My claim was that -not all Germans were guilty, and therefore not all Germans deserved injust treatment-. You haven't bothered to attack that claim, because you can't - you instead of misrepresented me and made my arguments more extreme than I said.

If you want the Germans to stay rather than go to Germany-the consequences will be trial for collaboration with organisation plotting extermination of Polish nation for those involved with Nazism....

Ah, so all Germans, even ones who didn't collaborate with the extermination, are guilty? Wonderful. While we're at it, let's also slaughter the Ukrainians who fought against the Poles in Lvov, or the Lithuanians who resisted in Vilnius, since obviously, once a country annexed other territory, they have full rights. Your entire argument -supports- the German occupation indirectly. You claim that "once a country annexes territory, that population must be loyal". Nazi Germany annexed large tracts of Poland... on your logic, they had the right to murder Poles who resisted, or is Poland magically exempt from any such restrictions? Watch what you say.

I am going to make it very clear - stop it with the strawman attacks. They are becoming quite annoying and insulting.
 
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