What PoD would keep Rock and its subgenres/derivatives as the predominant form of popular music up to the present day?

[StrangeMedicine]

IOTL, Rock was the main form of popular music for almost 50 years - from the mid 50s to the early 00s, when it was overtaken by various forms of techno and rap music. What would it take to keep Rock popular up to the present day the way it was decades ago?

Rough chronology of styles
1950s
Blues rock: based on the 12 bar blues progression, artists like Chuck Berry, Little Richard, and early Elvis.
1960s
Basic early rock: Early Beatles stuff from before they got creative (i.e. "Twist and Shout" to "Help")
Folk rock and psychedelia: middle Beatles stuff, their most experimental period
Roots rock: Late Beatles stuff that tries to get back to basics, like Let it Be
1970s:
Prog rock: very experimental, Pink Floyd for example
Glam rock: very flashy and flamboyant, David Bowie and similar artists
Punk rock: minimalist in comparison to glam rock, which many practitioners viewed as excessive, artists like the Ramones and the Sex Pistols
BRIEF DISCO INTERREGNUM IN THE LATE 70s
DISCO DEMOLITION NIGHT IN 1979
1980s
AOR: rock restoration, bands like Journey that made melodic rock, usually had a high-pitched singer and was very "produced" (i.e. lots of reverb and double tracking, synths, etc...)
Hair Metal: essentially AOR with more guitar distortion at a faster tempo, played by men with long hair (my favorite genre of Rock music), lots of established rock artists produced albums in this genre, such as Michael Bolton, Alice Cooper, KISS, and Bon Jovi
1990s
Grunge: dark, edgy music coming mostly from Seattle, usually downtuned, bands like Alice in Chains
Here is where the mainstream starts to fracture, in part driven by the rise of the internet. There is another interregnum, this time driven by RnB (such as Destiny's Child), rap music (such as Jay-Z), and teenage pop (such as NSYNC)
2000s
Rock makes one final mainstream comeback in the form of pop-punk, with bands like Sum 41. This is the last time Rock ever dominates the mainstream charts. The last rock song to hit #1 on the Billboard Hot 100 chart was "Locked Out Of Heaven" by Bruno Mars in January 2013. The penultimate one was "Viva la Vida" by Coldplay in June 2008. The last one before that was "Everything You Want" by Vertical Horizon in July 2000. The last one before that was "I Don't Want To Miss A Thing" by Aerosmith, in September 1998.

What would it take to keep modern popular music rock-dominated instead of being dominated by offshoots of RnB, techno, and rap?

 

[KingNothing]

Songs about mental health and social problems will lure a lot of people in. Put in some slower riffs with melodic lead guitar, or even better play Tinariwen guitar style to give people a new sound to listen to. I think it would be enough to make rock music mainstream again

 

[Ventriloquist]

No Bush or 9/11, I guess? I feel like they both did a lot to shift the cultural landscape away from rock. Otherwise, idk.

Also, you forgot the only number one rock song of 2007: HEY HEY YOU YOU I DON'T LIKE YOUR GIRLFRIEND NO WAY NO WAY I THINK YOU NEED A NEW ONE

e: also, as much as I hate to say it, Nickelback was a rock band who had a number one song in 2001 in 'How You Remind Me'

 

[Look More Closely Later]

...What would it take to keep modern popular music rock-dominated instead of being dominated by offshoots of RnB, techno, and rap?

It would take an alien space bat mind-controlling the global population.
Fashions and trends come and go naturally. Look at what hairstyles are popular, or types of glasses (in terms of the design of the frames) which people wear to correct faulty vision. Look at the way that at one point people couldn't get enough of Mozart music, despite the ridiculous number of pieces he composed, and how now most of it is forgotten, except by a few Mozart fanatics.

There's a point at which peoples often want something new, and not what is months or years or decades old, and regardless of the respective merits of the situations, it's out with the old and in with the new.
And sometimes, after the latest fad has died away and lost its novelty - or perhaps several generations of latest fads have had their days - something which was older gets revisited. (Consider, for example, the way that vinyl is becoming popular again amongst at least some people, as a format for the storage of music.)

If RnB, techno, and rap have sent rock the way of the Mozart piece written for string quartet, so what? That's what happens in arts and culture.
And maybe it will be revived at some point in the future after the latest fads have run their course.

 

[SavoyTruffle]

Theory: given that rock music had been increasingly associated with white men of a certain age (boomers and Gen Xers alike), perhaps one way to extend it would be for the industry to be more diverse earlier.

Another thing is that rock had the pulse of the youth ever since its inception - ever since the music industry learned that young people are who influence popular music rock's been st the forefront of expressing oneself musically.

The main issues is that as time passed, rock music became more and more entrenched to the point where its DIY aesthetic and grassroots appeal (hence the archetypal kids in a garage) slowly gave way to industry propped up old men who sang Satisfaction even in their 60s and 70s. And that's not quite what people want in their music.

 

[Kermode]

Well, er, are we discounting all of indie rock? A band like, I don't know, Arcade Fire might not fit the ur-image of "rock", but there were several garage rock/post-punk revival bands of the 00s that definitely qualify: The Strokes, the White Stripes, the Black Keys, Modest Mouse, the Arctic Monkeys, Kings of Leon, and so on. Sure, none of them were ever the biggest band, but they all saw large mainstream success. I wouldn't put rock's mainstream decline any earlier than 2010.

But the reason behind rock's decline is actually very simple: it had grown calcified, stale and boring. Just look at your chart, and how you can identify new trends, movements and developments in each decade— sometimes multiple ones— and how that suddenly stops in the 90s. Rock has not had a major stylistic development since grunge; even indie rock, which was the predominant guitar-music for a while, was largely backwards looking, with its revivals of garage rock, post-punk, baroque pop, jangle pop and whatnot. That is also, conversely, why hip hop is ascendent: it is constantly experimenting, changing and growing. Gangster rap lost its mainstream appeal in circa 2010, but hip hop as a whole carried on because a whole host of new subgenres and fusions popped up thereafter.

In short: if rock is to remain dominant, it needs to actually do something again. By which I mean there needs to be an actual scene or movement, not simply a revered iconoclast. Maybe there's a new wave of art rock, spurred on by a desire to marry the eclectic indie sound to a rock framework, which then goes on to inspire further experimentation; or maybe, similar to what SavoyTruffle suggests, people other than white men gain a larger presence in the genre, and bring with them new influences and ideas. But it's not just going to stay dominant because it was before— witness the utter yawn that greeted the failed mid-00s "hard rock revival".

 

[marathag]

Rock&Roll had more subtypes than previous types, that allowed it to outlast earlier popular music formats like Big Band, Crooner, or Ragtime.

But all tastes change.

But note thst 50 years ago, the music on radio was all fairly fresh, excepting the Classical.
In 1970, you would have been hard pressed to find a station that had a Ragtime Format.
Today, you can still get Classic Rock format stations across the nation that are playing 50 year old Zeppelin and Deep Purple.

Another thing from 50 years ago, Top 40 Radio had a huge, wide playlist.
Pop
Funk
Country
Heavy Metal
Ballads
Rock
Prog Rock
Glam
And many more

 

[SavoyTruffle]

Also keep in mind: the kids before who would get two or three pals to play with them in their garage are now likelier to sit in their room and tinker with Pro Tools or somesuch. There's far lower barriers to entry in music nowadays.

Also my out there theory is that this is karma for Disco Demolition Night - I think disco was gonna go out of style anyway, but the rockist, white male mainstream had such a disproportionate backlash to it.

 

[Ventriloquist]

Well, er, are we discounting all of indie rock? A band like, I don't know, Arcade Fire might not fit the ur-image of "rock", but there were several garage rock/post-punk revival bands of the 00s that definitely qualify: The Strokes, the White Stripes, the Black Keys, Modest Mouse, the Arctic Monkeys, Kings of Leon, and so on. Sure, none of them were ever the biggest band, but they all saw large mainstream success. I wouldn't put rock's mainstream decline any earlier than 2010.

But the reason behind rock's decline is actually very simple: it had grown calcified, stale and boring. Just look at your chart, and how you can identify new trends, movements and developments in each decade— sometimes multiple ones— and how that suddenly stops in the 90s. Rock has not had a major stylistic development since grunge; even indie rock, which was the predominant guitar-music for a while, was largely backwards looking, with its revivals of garage rock, post-punk, baroque pop, jangle pop and whatnot. That is also, conversely, why hip hop is ascendent: it is constantly experimenting, changing and growing. Gangster rap lost its mainstream appeal in circa 2010, but hip hop as a whole carried on because a whole host of new subgenres and fusions popped up thereafter.

In short: if rock is to remain dominant, it needs to actually do something again. By which I mean there needs to be an actual scene or movement, not simply a revered iconoclast. Maybe there's a new wave of art rock, spurred on by a desire to marry the eclectic indie sound to a rock framework, which then goes on to inspire further experimentation; or maybe, similar to what SavoyTruffle suggests, people other than white men gain a larger presence in the genre, and bring with them new influences and ideas. But it's not just going to stay dominant because it was before— witness the utter yawn that greeted the failed mid-00s "hard rock revival".

This entire post is good and I totally agree.

So how do we get new forms of rock into the mainstream? Bowie's Blackstar and both of Radiohead's albums are pretty much the only experimental rock albums to have made headway into the global mainstream this decade, and while Swans and Daughters had a good decade, they sure as hell weren't mainstream.

Like, I'm looking at rateyourmusic's top rock albums of the 2010s, and it is dominated by white (and predominantly male) bands and artists who were established before the 2010s. The only new bands in the top 40 are Car Seat Headrest, Death Grips, King Gizzard and the Lizard Wizard, Deafheaven, Idles, black midi, and Parquet Courts. Of those bands, only one is fronted by a black man (Death Grips) and none have had top 10 albums outside of their home country (the two who did being King Gizzard and Idles). As has been mentioned, people of colour (especially in the US) aren't really playing guitar music anymore, and rock as a whole is largely seen as the domain of white men in 2020.

I dunno. I'm willing to believe that rock just doesn't sell anymore.

 

[Mark E.]

Just as rock and roll became dominant with high fidelity technology, the demise of rock being described corresponds precisely with another tech change: the demise of physical music media. When vinyl records were replaced by CDs, the common record charts (e.g., Billboard) became dominated by hip-hop in the nineties. Likewise, as CDs are being replaced by on-line sources and now streaming, at issue is the way popularity of new music is measured. Look back to the sixties and little that was more than five years old was still popular. Since then, each year has added to an ever-growing accumulation of material. Relatively few, like most disco, crash out and stay out of style.

As for Top 40, it was invented by broadcaster Todd Storz in 1954, precisely when the recording industry shifted to the 33/45 vinyl format. The idea was to mix the most requested and best selling songs of the week, regardless of genre. At the same time, Alan Freed coined the term rock and roll and moved his base from Cleveland to New York. Gordon McClendon of the Dallas area did more to promote local programming as television was entering the market. Radio would adjust by shifting more to music, as the supply of higher quality vinyl was the new source of supply.

 

[Kermode]

So how do we get new forms of rock into the mainstream? Bowie's Blackstar and both of Radiohead's albums are pretty much the only experimental rock albums to have made headway into the global mainstream this decade, and while Swans and Daughters had a good decade, they sure as hell weren't mainstream.

Yeah, there's been a good few art rock albums in the previous decade, but I think it's notable they've all been from established artists and, though well-received, did not have any 'coattails' to speak of— no followers in their wake. I think I may have been too optimistic before; I'm not sure any mainstream rebirth of art rock is really plausible, since we saw plenty of artists do stuff there, get critical acclaim and commercial success, and then have little cultural impact. There can't be a new scene if nobody's paying attention.

Your mention of Swans and Daughters is, I think, the final piece of the puzzle: while there's still plenty of interesting and exciting guitar music out there, it's in niche or extreme genres that have no chance of mainstream appeal (post-rock, drone, noise rock, etc).

 

[ralphz]

I agree that Pro Tools is a cheaper way to make music than guitar, amp, etc. I think that has a lot to do with Hip-Hop and EDM passing rock.

I think, along with the shattering of the Top 40 playlist by programming consultants (who largely pushed each genre into its own ghetto), the rise of the Internet broke the world into smaller and smaller chunks. One thing rock relied on was a collective experience. There is no such thing anymore - or, it's at least more rare. Even current "chart toppers" sell substantially less than the previous era's. It takes less to capture an audience, and they move on quicker.

 

[riggerrob]

Every new generation needs its own genre of "angry young man" music.
Songs popular with your parents are old and boring and stale!

 

[marathag]

Every new generation needs its own genre of "angry young man" music.
Songs popular with your parents are old and boring and stale!

One difference on Album Rock back in the '70s, few releases were one hit wonders, there always would be a few good tracks worth listening for most.. By the '90s, were lucky to get one good tune on a $17 CD.
Much of the music, just wasn't as good and low in tracks you want to listen to, per dollar.

Hair Bands were then killed by Grunge, with yes, a new batch of angry guys, but many of them had real skills.
There a reason why -Nevermind- by Nirvana did so well, lot of good tracks there.

Then enter file sharing with the development of mp3 and the IRC to share them on in 1996.
This where the first modern music pirates really got going. A few years later you had Napster.
Music Industry could not be the same after that.

 

[GTStinger]

One option would be for rap rock to become bigger.
Have Prince decide to show the “tone deaf” rappers how to do it right in an early-mid 80’s album.
Build a supergroup of established rappers with prominent rock musicians as the backing band.
Rap rock could show up on the radar as Micheal-mania ends and be poised to take the forefront as the hair bands fade.
End result OTL would be rock stations as something other than what old and middle age white dudes listen to.

 

[Hadley]

Every new generation needs its own genre of "angry young man" music.
Songs popular with your parents are old and boring and stale!

Except the current generation likely has parents who grew up with rap or electronic music, heck, some of those artists that they liked may still be active and succesful today.

 

[Mark E.]

One thing rock relied on was a collective experience. There is no such thing anymore - or, it's at least more rare.

Wind the clock back to the years when high fidelity stereo systems filled college dorm rooms with large speakers (the seventies). Students would gather in a room and share a joint social (collective) experience and listen to each others records. Today, everyone prefers headphones or ear buds. The hard drive sized music library has given way to on-line streaming. Multiple people in a room can listen to different material of choice. The RIAA likes it because without physical media (records or CDs) there are no permanent licenses, as royalties are subscription based.