What made the English so great?

Cultural traits are for Civilization players.
England had good kings/queens when it had too. They played a big role in many things.
It is on an island. Very important.
And they had luck.

Trying to say "French are like this, German like that, etc." is pointless.

Attempting to reduce peoples to hats (or caps, if you understand Swedish history) is at best a futile exercise that does not do them dignity.

Other countries also had good rulers. I think England benefited more from a shortage of disasterously bad ones than from having good ones, over all.

Yeah, they were lucky that their Charles II was far more competent than Spain's monarch of the same name. Plus, Parliament was enough of a counterweight to royal misadventures, and the English Civil War showed that Parliament was the ultimate boss of the land.
 
Attempting to reduce peoples to hats (or caps, if you understand Swedish history) is at best a futile exercise that does not do them dignity.

I vaguely grasp the reference - wasn't that some 18th century political thing?

Royal supporters (for some issue I can't remember now) and revolutionaries (might be a bit strong a word)?

Yeah, they were lucky that their Charles II was far more competent than Spain's monarch of the same name. Plus, Parliament was enough of a counterweight to royal misadventures, and the English Civil War showed that Parliament was the ultimate boss of the land.

In fairness to Carlos, he seems to have tried. Unfortunately, he was completely incapacitated in just about every way.
 
I vaguely grasp the reference - wasn't that some 18th century political thing?

Royal supporters (for some issue I can't remember now) and revolutionaries (might be a bit strong a word)?

They were more like the Whigs and Tories, in that they were de facto political parties during the Age of Liberty.


In fairness to Carlos, he seems to have tried. Unfortunately, he was completely incapacitated in just about every way.

Although Carlos II is the poster boy for royal inbreeding, I tend to group him with Ferdinand of Austria - well meaning, but with ailments that prevented them from being capable monarchs.

Plus, there's that sad look in his portrait, or that's the Habsburg lip being too exaggerated.
 
Other countries also had good rulers. I think England benefited more from a shortage of disasterously bad ones than from having good ones, over all.

One thing that should not be underestimated is the "constitutional" element of a constitutional monarchy. From 1704 onwards the key decisions were made by ministers rather than kings and ministers could be removed / replaced as they made mistakes unlike monarchs.

The rest of Europe didn't catch up with this for over a century which meant the fledgling middle classes and technocrats of the British Empire could increasingly use their freedom from aristocratic control to advance their own and the Empire's status.
 
They were more like the Whigs and Tories, in that they were de facto political parties during the Age of Liberty.

Ah. I got it partially right.


Although Carlos II is the poster boy for royal inbreeding, I tend to group him with Ferdinand of Austria - well meaning, but with ailments that prevented them from being capable monarchs.

Plus, there's that sad look in his portrait, or that's the Habsburg lip being too exaggerated.

Agreed. I think its both in the case of the portrait - he looks like someone you want to put out of their misery.

When even portraits presumably not meant to make him look bad make him look bad, you know things have gotten out of hand.
 
One thing that should not be underestimated is the "constitutional" element of a constitutional monarchy. From 1704 onwards the key decisions were made by ministers rather than kings and ministers could be removed / replaced as they made mistakes unlike monarchs.

The rest of Europe didn't catch up with this for over a century which meant the fledgling middle classes and technocrats of the British Empire could increasingly use their freedom from aristocratic control to advance their own and the Empire's status.

And thus the "nation of shopkeepers" a certain Corsican derided took its turn as the Empire Upon Which The Sun Never Set

Agreed. I think its both in the case of the portrait - he looks like someone you want to put out of their misery.

When even portraits presumably not meant to make him look bad make him look bad, you know things have gotten out of hand.

I kinda feel sorry for him, though. Then again, he was a contemporary of his nephew/half brother in law, who was the most ambitious king of France (note the words).
 
I kinda feel sorry for him, though. Then again, he was a contemporary of his nephew/half brother in law, who was the most ambitious king of France (note the words).

Yeah. Carlos deserved better. And does this mean Louis the Archetypal Absolute Monarch?
 
Just wondering what made it so that England was able to create a large merchant class?


England got a large merchant class by trading, RS. So many groups in the world have a keen reputation of being merchants, such as the Lebanonese, Cantonese, Jewish, Janists. In Mexico it is the group on the Pacific side of the isthmus, in Alaska it was the Tlinglit, in Zambia it is one tribe named ... For what ever reason, these groups were favorably situated and took advantage of the opportunity, making a culture of trading. That culture was handed down in some families and through other formal/informal subgroups.

The British merely did the same. Other groups in Europe did as well, Napoleon's comment of a nation of shopkeepers was widely use to describe a variety of places, like for Holland, at the general time. But every nation in the continental side of Europe got used up by the constant wars and trouble, even Switzerland was taken over in the early 1800's. In Britain, the merchant class had time to recooperate and develope outside of Europe.

Regarding the idea that the English took over Scotland, etc., there is a bit of truth in that. In the Channel Islands, it is still locally said that they are not the last remnant of English French holdings, but rather the other way around. The Normans invaded England from there, you see, and Ireland has broken from the fold.
 
Strange thing about the Celts in the Empire. When the time comes for this sort of thread, everyone pipes up about how much of Britain's soldiers were Irish, and how many clever chaps were Scots-but in Hollywood, the evil British general is always English.
 
Strange thing about the Celts in the Empire. When the time comes for this sort of thread, everyone pipes up about how much of Britain's soldiers were Irish, and how many clever chaps were Scots-but in Hollywood, the evil British general is always English.

The Scots were the elite troops, the Irish the Red Shirts (in a literal as well as figurative manner), and of course the English were the elites.
 
To hell with Hollywood...

... Hollywood needed a new source of villains after it became politically incorrect to have German, Russian and Japanese WW2 stereotypes and too worried about oil to choose any Middle Eastern state. Bearing in mind 1776, the result was inevitable and the British/English are too polite to protest...

...Until NOW...:mad:
 
The Anglo-Saxon race is superior in their blood, language, customs, culture, and spirit. This is clearly demonstrated by their ascendancy over the world despite being such small portion of the population and rightfully take their place over the lesser races and bring them civilization.

We do in fact win.
 
The Anglo-Saxon race is superior in their blood, language, customs, culture, and spirit. This is clearly demonstrated by their ascendancy over the world despite being such small portion of the population and rightfully take their place over the lesser races and bring them civilization.

We do in fact win.
In fact, you lose. Unless and until you define the "Anglo-Saxon" race by both historical and DNA analyses and account for the fact that the early Christian chronicles from what is now England refer to both Angles and Saxons as pirates, you lose.
 
In fact, you lose. Unless and until you define the "Anglo-Saxon" race by both historical and DNA analyses and account for the fact that the early Christian chronicles from what is now England refer to both Angles and Saxons as pirates, you lose.

Sorry, I lost my DNA analysis* the other day. Could you supply me with yours. If not you "lose".
 
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