What languages would be spoken in a non arabised, middle ages MENA?

Let's say the different arab tribes start several internal wars in the peninsula that harm the population so they no longer have an incentive to expand. Muhammad is also killed or never born, so the religious aspect of the conquests is also removes. what languages will be dominant in this non-arabic, middle ages MENA? would aramaic or syriac completely dominate mesopotemia and the levant, or would smaller languages still be spoken? would hebrew be spoken at all? what about egypt? would african romance survive and influence the berbers or would it be assimilated? is Phonecian even relevant anymore by this point, both in lebanon and north africa?
 
Aramaic, Coptic, Romance, Greek and Persian. Greek in urban and coastal areas of the mediterranean, Persian in urban areas in Mesopotamia or generally in the Iranian Plateau. Aramaic would be dividided in 2 groups East and West and Coptic would exist in Egypt, mostly Upper Egypt IMO. African Romance would survive but I don't think it would expand much, Berber would coexist with it.

Phoenician and Hebrew are universally dead by now AFAIK.
 

Albert.Nik

Banned
In the Western Middle East,predominantly European languages. Most probably Greek and Romance languages as a base as you would have more and more European settlers who will come here if Islam doesn't exist. Or even Germanic,Slavic and Celtic languages might also be predominant. Minority would be Aramaic,Anatolian,Armenian,Caucasian languages,Arabic,Hebrew,Coptic and Kurdish(Christian Kurds would exist). In the East,mostly Middle Persian.
Or even some kind of Vulgar Aramaic or something might exist as Celtic,Germanic or Slavic people who would dominate the Middle East in this timeline if the Greeks were defeated would do the same thing like the Germanic peoples did in France,Spain and Italy. Use the local language for their purposes.
 
In the Western Middle East,predominantly European languages. Most probably Greek and Romance languages as a base as you would have more and more European settlers who will come here if Islam doesn't exist. Or even Germanic,Slavic and Celtic languages might also be predominant. Minority would be Aramaic,Anatolian,Armenian,Caucasian languages,Arabic,Hebrew,Coptic and Kurdish(Christian Kurds would exist). In the East,mostly Middle Persian.
Or even some kind of Vulgar Aramaic or something might exist as Celtic,Germanic or Slavic people who would dominate the Middle East in this timeline if the Greeks were defeated would do the same thing like the Germanic peoples did in France,Spain and Italy. Use the local language for their purposes.
Celtic, Slavic and Germanic in North Africa? That's ASB.
 

Albert.Nik

Banned
Celtic, Slavic and Germanic in North Africa? That's ASB.
Really? What about Visigoths and Vandals then? East Germanic and Italic had large presence in NA before Islam. Slavic could happen in a continued expansion from the Balkans in case of the vacuum left by Islam. Celts lived very close to North Africa and a remnant of Celtic languages isn't ruled out. But yes,unlike the others mentioned here,Celtic speakers weren't that expansive so less probability.
 
Really? What about Visigoths and Vandals then?

Neither actually kept their languages alive for very long after moving into Romance territories, especially the Vandals.

As for OP, Greek, Aramaic, and Persian of some kind will be the main languages. Armenian will cover most of eastern Anatolia and a good chunk of the Caucasus along with Kartvelian, and Coptic dominates in Egypt.
 
Really? What about Visigoths and Vandals then? East Germanic and Italic had large presence in NA before Islam. Slavic could happen in a continued expansion from the Balkans in case of the vacuum left by Islam. Celts lived very close to North Africa and a remnant of Celtic languages isn't ruled out. But yes,unlike the others mentioned here,Celtic speakers weren't that expansive so less probability.
East Germanic really didn't, even if we assume all the people that went to North Africa with the Vandals were Germanic speakers that would make just a low single digit percent which probably died of by the start of the 7th century.

Slavic is way too far to really reach the area in relevant numbers.
 

Albert.Nik

Banned
Neither actually kept their languages alive for very long after moving into Romance territories, especially the Vandals.

As for OP, Greek, Aramaic, and Persian of some kind will be the main languages. Armenian will cover most of eastern Anatolia and a good chunk of the Caucasus along with Kartvelian, and Coptic dominates in Egypt.
A Slavic expansion cannot be ruled out however. Or probably some North Germanic Empire taking over the Vacuum left by Islamic empires in the South establishing a good population of North Germanic peoples,who'd come with the Vikings into this vacuum who as they assimilate the locals could form something like a Vulgar Greek or Vulgar Coptic as the Germanic empires in the West did with Latin giving today's French,Spanish,Italian and Portuguese. Or even West Germanic tribes could settle some parts as except Greece,Balkans and Anatolia,Byzantines didn't hold strongly other parts.
 
A Slavic expansion cannot be ruled out however. Or probably some North Germanic Empire taking over the Vacuum left by Islamic empires in the South establishing a good population of North Germanic peoples,who'd come with the Vikings into this vacuum who as they assimilate the locals could form something like a Vulgar Greek or Vulgar Coptic as the Germanic empires in the West did with Latin giving today's French,Spanish,Italian and Portuguese. Or even West Germanic tribes could settle some parts as except Greece,Balkans and Anatolia,Byzantines didn't hold strongly other parts.
A Slavic expansion into what were Islamic MENA territories OTL is extremely unlikely.
As is any large scale Norse settlement.
Recall that the Islamised Arabs didn't expand into a vacuum, they pushed their way in.
With the reduction as per the OP what happens is Aramaic and Greek remain the trade and administrative languages in the Middle East - especially with a stronger East Roman position - TTL Aramaic could absorb Arab dialects rather than the other way round.
 

Albert.Nik

Banned
A Slavic expansion into what were Islamic MENA territories OTL is extremely unlikely.
As is any large scale Norse settlement.
Recall that the Islamised Arabs didn't expand into a vacuum, they pushed their way in.
With the reduction as per the OP what happens is Aramaic and Greek remain the trade and administrative languages in the Middle East - especially with a stronger East Roman position - TTL Aramaic could absorb Arab dialects rather than the other way round.
Greek was particularly more dominant over the region so that might be the majority language for day to day and Aramaic,Coptic,Latin,Armenian,Kurdish would be spoken in smaller numbers and used for religious purposes. This if the Byzantine Empire was intact.
 
Greek was particularly more dominant over the region so that might be the majority language for day to day and Aramaic,Coptic,Latin,Armenian,Kurdish would be spoken in smaller numbers and used for religious purposes. This if the Byzantine Empire was intact.
Greek was the common administrative language but Aramaic was more than just a liturgical one, it was pretty much the trade koine. That's why Arabic was able to replace it so well.
 
Greek was particularly more dominant over the region so that might be the majority language for day to day and Aramaic,Coptic,Latin,Armenian,Kurdish would be spoken in smaller numbers and used for religious purposes. This if the Byzantine Empire was intact.

Greek was dominant in the large Byzantine cities and most of Anatolia, but languages like Coptic, Armenian, and Aramaic were still vital outside of religious purposes (obviously, or else they wouldn’t have survived post-Islamic conquests as long as they did). I don’t think Romance languages were spoken anywhere besides Africa and possibly IIRC some dialect in Beirut? And then Kurdish was largely spoken beyond the borders of the East Roman Empire
 
Think of all of the current linguistic minorities in the region, sans maybe the Circassians. It would be like that, assuming the lack of Arab incursions don't butterfly the later Turkic incursions.
 
OK - hopefully this is not derailing, and hopefully not totally ignorant. I confess, I'm not really up on this time period or this region.

Would alt-Mongols move into this area? I don't know if it would be more or less likely with this scenario. If so, does it have an influence on the languages spoken. And, even if they don't move into this area, would they displace peoples in regions they did conquer? Would there be a bunch of alt-Persians, say, fleeing to North Africa, and would that have an influence on language?
 
Arabic, of course, would still be spoken in various parts of the region, and might even slowly replace Aramaic in some areas even without the early Caliphate conquests, as it was seemingly an ongoing process before Islam. "Arabic" might not be the name under which the language is mostly known today, and without the unifying force of Islam, it would likely fracture into divergent varieties pretty soon (also an ongoing process IOTL of course).
Aramaic in its multiple varieties would, however, remain the primary spoken and, increasingly, written language of the settled parts of the Levant and Mesopotamia, including some adjoining highlands, for longer. If, where and when a form of "Arabic" overtakes it is a matter of specifics in the future of the TL, but even in that case, in all probability it would not be a complete substitution (which did not happen entirely even IOTL).
Also, a Medieval form of Sabaic-like South Arabian has more chance to survive both as a spoken and written language in a no-Islam TL, even if Arabic was already expanding in the area as well (ironically enough, seemingly in part as a vehicle of Christianity). In Dhofar and surroundings, the ancestor of Modern South Arabian was probably already spoken and, since these languages were not replaced by Arabic IOTL, it would likely continue to do so.
God knows what was spoken in pre-Islamic Oman, but probably Arabic would dominate the area ultimately.
The "Hasaitic" language of the Gulf Coast (which we don't know for sure was still spoken at the time, some Syriac documents note a "Qatari" language still spoken that may have been its continuation) may or may not be replaced by Arabic, I think it would.
I suppose that the North Arabian, presumably non-Arabic dialects transpiring from many of the so-called "Thamudic" had been aleady replaced by Arabic in most of the Peninsula, if they were distinct from it to begin with (no-one is really sure yet). If not, some of these may survive in this scenario, but I'm skeptical.
Kurdish and other non-Persian Iranian languages would, of course, be spoken in the highlands (alongside Armenian and Aramaic in some places).
Of course, Egypt would speak Coptic (and Greek among the urban elites).
The rest of North Africa, overwhelmingly, Amazigh languages, except coastal Tunisia and some other urban areas where African Romance is likely to survive (longer, at least). Punic enclaves may have survived into the seventh century, the future does not seem bright but who know.
It's hard to project much, however, without clearer specifications and political context. Turkic speaking groups are going to enter the region, but they might not leave the same huge linguistic imprint (this happened mostly from the eleventh century IOTL, but some presence is obviously earlier).
Almost certainly, nobody anywhere spoke Hebrew as a first language in late Antiquity anymore.
 
As an aside, I am not sure the OP works.
IOTL, intense warfare and general instability seems to have intensified in Arabia in the sixth century CE, presumably in large part because of the ongoing crisis of Himyar.
This is a very plausible part of why Islam was so appealing to Arabians, so intensified conflict would increase the likelihood of some other message of refom to spread with unifying force. Absent that (at least in a successful form) increased conflict would still produce an increased Arabian (mostly, but not necessarily entirely, Arabic-speaking) interaction and settlement in the Fertile Crescent, a process that had been ongoing for quite a while anyway. This wold occur both in the form of refugees from the inter-Arabian wars, and the inevitable interlock of such conflicts with the broader geopolitics of the region, dominated by the major confrontation between New Rome and Eranshahr. Such interlock played up massively IOTL, and affected Himyar very severely in particular; but it seems increasingly clear how it destabilized and involved more or less the whole of Arabia. More conflict within Arabia means more interaction with the Imperial centers.
 
Amazigh will be the dominant language in NA, including Coptic.

Latin was the written and increasingly spoken language of a lot of the population in North Africa (sans Egypt--Coptic--and Cyrenaica--part Greek part Berber). Being linked with the growing power of the church certainly helped it. It's hard to say just how dominant African Romance languages (outside of coastal Africa/Numidia) would be since it depends on the political situation in the region the next few centuries.

Phoenician and Hebrew are universally dead by now AFAIK.

It doesn't seem likely Punic was totally dead by the 7th century when the it had numerous 5-6th century attestations.
 

Vuu

Banned
Berber Egyptian (Coptic) and Afro-Romance in Africa, around 2-3 Arabic languages in Arabia, Aramaic

Others will be meme tier and spoken by a politically irrelevant amount of people
 
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