What is the most likely balkanization for the states

Just what it says on the package... "What is the most likely balkinization for the states?"

I am guessing it is pre-independence. each colony has to form their own national government.
 
Fremont's Bear Republic doesn't join the US and remains independent. The Confederacy wins the Civil War, Texas breaks off later. Maybe Oklahoma forms an Indian nation.

I'm already stretching it there and even that's not very "balkanized"
 
Fremont's Bear Republic doesn't join the US and remains independent. The Confederacy wins the Civil War, Texas breaks off later. Maybe Oklahoma forms an Indian nation.

I'm already stretching it there and even that's not very "balkanized"
OK, if you don't know about the 13 colonieds unification problems... *shakes head*
Most likely it is as postulated in OP. Except some states join together like maybe Carolina.
Or several European nations colonise it. After 1800 the only balkanisation is something with the ACW... and that's it.
 
OK, if you don't know about the 13 colonieds unification problems... *shakes head*
Most likely it is as postulated in OP. Except some states join together like maybe Carolina.
Or several European nations colonise it. After 1800 the only balkanisation is something with the ACW... and that's it.
No, actually.

New England could break off in the 1810s (see Decades of Darkness). California, Texas, and Deseret all could be independent with the right circumstances. The same goes for West Florida.
 

Leo Caesius

Banned
Just what it says on the package... "What is the most likely balkinization for the states?"

I am guessing it is pre-independence. each colony has to form their own national government.
This has probably been mentioned here before, but the New York delegates had originally been instructed by their provincial Congress to abstain from voting and not to sign any instrument of independence (they only consented to do so on July 9th). Furthermore, NY fell into British hands early during the war and remained until the peace treaty was signed. Perhaps New York remains loyal, whereas the colonies to the north and south become independent? Clearly control of NY wasn't critical for the Revolution.

I suspect that even if the two halfs of the new nation form some sort of union after having successfully secured their independence, this union would not last for very long. Eventually you might see a situation not unlike the political development of South America in the North. I don't see the southern colonies stretching "from sea to shining sea" in this TL either.
 
POD is that the Iroquois Federation forms MUCH sooner. I'm talking centuries of centralized government near the Great Lakes. The many attempts of native americans to drive back settlement actually succeed at some point (I'm forgetting the major ones that happened pre ARW) and the Iroquois Federation is recognized as an independent nation by the British and Colonial authorities.

On top of this, the Spanish continue their push for land in the American Southwest, causing rumor of the Iroquois centralization to filter through and the Navajo and other groups in that region manage to collect themselves well-enough to stave off a Spanish overrun (or at least a more amenable situation where they are allowed to exercise at least partial autonomous control over their land).

Poof, bang, magic, by the time American independence is achieved (let's assume it does), you have several recognized and organized states occupying the North American continent. Canadians manage to use them to succeed in their own attempts at independence and the American Indians are useful in destroying the Mexican Empire.

This obviously butterflies a lot of things away and anything past American Independence (and a lot of things up to that point) are pure conjecture. But that's my offering. Pair it with America's tendency towards Manifest Destiny and you have a LOT of flashpoints for balkanization later.
 
From what I know,the states already had sperate currncies during the 1700's. Seperate banks still were printing differertnt miney in the 1850's. Perhaps a Southern win causes a depression for the Union. Due to this,the U.S. never makes the single currency.
Several states break off,wanting a more prosperous,capitilist society. N.Y.C. was considering seccesion before the A.C.W.
 
I think the most likely (and most popular) scenario is an alternate ACW outcome, or possibly an alternate ACW all together. However, I'm in agreement that if it's that late, a truly Balkan situation is kind of hard to muster.
 
From what I know,the states already had sperate currncies during the 1700's. Seperate banks still were printing differertnt miney in the 1850's. Perhaps a Southern win causes a depression for the Union. Due to this,the U.S. never makes the single currency.
Several states break off,wanting a more prosperous,capitilist society. N.Y.C. was considering seccesion before the A.C.W.

I also know that prior to the constitution 9 of the 13 colonies also had state religions. maybe those nine reject the clause of separation of church and state and decide to form their own independent government.
 
I would probably say that the easiest way would to make sure that the United States never forms in a recognizable form in the first place. Articles of Confederation, anyone?
 
I would probably say that the easiest way would to make sure that the United States never forms in a recognizable form in the first place. Articles of Confederation, anyone?

Yes that is probably the best and most commonly used POD.
 
It allways call my atention that "someone says sometime" that only after the Civil War, the USA are became the USA is
 
My guess: North America colonised by various European countries.

Yeah, I agree. Are you asking for simply plausible ways for the states not to form a complete union or what paths such a confederation (or nothing) would take? I think you would see the West Coasts definitely fall into the hands of Russian with England and possibly a California state owning everything down to some type of Mexico.

The interior North American really depends on what the British do after the WoI. If they reinforce and try to hold on to the Northwest Territories I think they can easily do so if the states remain separated and disorganized. That would cut off the entire continent to settlers, pioneers, Mormons and the like. Possible Indian confederations or states might immerge as the British set up trading partners and allies. The eastern half of the United States might see a few smaller expansions by a few states. I can see Virginia extended to Kentucky, Carolinas into Tennessee and modern Georgia. Possibly further extensions into the Alabama regions but all would just depend on the strength and determination of the European states to exclude them.

With balkanized states, I believe the continent would have a much more European look with graduate independence movements changing the landscape some. The colonies themselves could be marginalized by this unless some of the states like Virginia, Massachusetts, Pennsylvania, New York or the Carolinas make themselves something more.
 
I had wondered the other day: suppose New York or Georgia or another of the more Toryish states had decided to become a small, local monarchy, with a royal of some kind. Perhaps even go the Belgian route and import a monarch from Europe - just to keep that aspect of constitutional government. That would have put a huge damper on later becoming a union and could have contributed to that balkanized situation described above.
 
I also know that prior to the constitution 9 of the 13 colonies also had state religions. maybe those nine reject the clause of separation of church and state and decide to form their own independent government.

There is no clause for separation of church and state in the US Constitution, what is provided for is that Congress shall not establish a State religion. The individual states are welcome to do what they please.
 
You could effectively divide the US east of the Mississippi River into probably five nations:

1. New England Republic - Maine, Vermont, New Hampshire, Massachusetts. Rhode Island and Connecticut.

2. The Confederate States of America - South Carolina, North Carolina, Georgia, Florida, Alabama, Mississippi.

3. The Northwest Confederacy - Ohio, Indiana, Illinois, Michigan, Wisconsin.

4. Virginia - Virginia, Kentucky, Tennessee.

5. The United States of America - New York, Pennsylvania, Delaware, New Jersey, Maryland.

In the West one could see:

Greater Louisiana - Louisiana, Arkansas

Texas - including New Mexico and probably portions of Arizona.

The California Republic - including Nevada and probably portions of Arizona.

Desert - Utah and Colorado.

The Sioux Confederation - North and South Dakota, Montana, Wyoming, Minnesota

Sequyoah - OTL Oklahoma, Nebraska, Kansas

Oregon Country - Oregon, OTL Washington and Idaho.

Centralia (The Central Republic) - Iowa, Missouri.

One could probably bundle the Carolinas together into their own nation.
 
Why not an independent Hawaii?

Because it sank into the sea about twenty minutes ago. Global warming and all that.

Alaska would probably be independent for a while, then see that Canada roxxors her boxxors and become a province. Much like Texas was independent, then saw that the US roxxored her boxxors...ed. >.> <.<
 
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