What is the impact of an enlarged post-WW2 Austria?

I've been reading through the AH archives and I found a discussion on
post-war Austria regaining the South Tyrol from Italy. The discussion then moved onto Austria gaining Slovenia.
So...what would be the impact of an enlarged Austria containing the
present Austrian states and South Tyrol and Slovenia? Now I'm thinking
Slovenia would be a fully integrated state with it's language and culture
protected by the 1955 Austrian Constitution. I am not arguing about how this could or could not happen. Austria would still remain officially neutral
and not aligned with NATO or the Warsaw Pact. Please discuss.
 
I'm not sure much woud be different, perhaps maybe less people would be able to escape from communist Yugoslavia.
 

MSZ

Banned
I don't think it would be much different for Austria - just a larger neutral alpine state. I don't think that it would affect Italy either - assuming they lost Sudtirol after WW2, they would propably live to accept with their war guilt.

Yugoslavia however may likely get more revisionist and not recognize Austria's neutrality which could have lasting effects. First of all, it might mobilizethe Yugoslavs to stick closer together - fighting for "freeing slavs from German rule" was what started the movement, if slovens remain in Austria, their is reason for the movement to continue. This in turn might lead Austria to having a more 'militiant' neutrality - like Switzerland, with conscription and everyone having a gun at home, obliged to do his service. Might affect the stereotype of Austrians, from coffee drinking piano enthusiast to a more Steyr&Glock loving badasses.
 

Deleted member 1487

I've been reading through the AH archives and I found a discussion on
post-war Austria regaining the South Tyrol from Italy. The discussion then moved onto Austria gaining Slovenia.
So...what would be the impact of an enlarged Austria containing the
present Austrian states and South Tyrol and Slovenia? Now I'm thinking
Slovenia would be a fully integrated state with it's language and culture
protected by the 1955 Austrian Constitution. I am not arguing about how this could or could not happen. Austria would still remain officially neutral
and not aligned with NATO or the Warsaw Pact. Please discuss.

Sudtyrol is a stretch to imagine, because the Italians switched sides and were pretty much viewed as occupied by the Germans, instead of an integral part of the Axis that they were until 1943. Austria was viewed for political reasons as occupied territory too, but the understanding was at the time that it really wasn't that unwilling to fight for the Germans, so they got to keep their prewar territory.

Have the Italian revolt get nipped in the bud by German intelligence and you've got a chance to get Austria Sudtyrol, especially if Austria revolts at some point against Germany.

Slovenia is impossible. Not going to happen. It was prewar Yugoslav territory and considering that the Yugoslavs pretty much liberated themselves, no one is going to take Slovenia away from them without a fight, which no one wants to do in 1945 anyway, let alone against an ally for Austria.

At best you could negotiate Sudtyrol to punish Italy and maybe give them Sopron too, which was a majority ethnic German prior to the war and used to be the capital of Burgenland before the province was divided up in 1919.
 
The POD on Slovenia had to do with Stalin. The idea involved Stalin
wanting to accomplish two objectives.
1) Weaken Tito by taking away Slovenia.
2)Weaken the West by building up a larger neutral Austria. The writer believed that if Stalin thought Tito was turning toward to the West. A larger , neutral Austria would separate Yugo. from the rest of NATO. It wasn't my idea. I never knew Stalin actually supported the idea of an
independant Austria. I had assumed he wanted to carve up Austria like
Germany.
But this also makes me wonder if Stalin could have been more supportive of a larger post-War Austria? Any thoughts on this?
 
If (we) the Austrians had voted for a red govmnt instead of a balanced then Stalin "might" have had reason to believe Austria would become a voluntary member of the (later) Warsaw Pact or at least a more Soviet leaning nation. Then he MIGHT have thought weakening Yougoslavia is a good idea (Slovenia).

South Tirol is also possible, but I think Italy has a strong left movement so Stalin might NOT want to alienate the Italians.

What if SüdTirol is Austrian (but Trentino stays Italian of course) - well Italy has less top notch skiers and is not as prominent in Winter sports as it is IOTL.

Slovenia would have a significant impact:

More minority rights actually in a working conditions (Carinthians have no more reason to prepare for Abwehrkampf ;)).

Acess to the Sea - well we have a navy then ;) - Koper will be a larger harbour as it gets built up earlier.

The right wing parties might either be weaker (2 nations in one country might help to develop a more open society) or stronger - "we have the Slovenes, so keep all other out" - politics...

But honestly I don't think much else would be changed.
 
Slovenia is impossible. Not going to happen. It was prewar Yugoslav territory and considering that the Yugoslavs pretty much liberated themselves
According to their own propaganda, which was accepted and spread at the time by leftists in Britain at the time, they did: Howover according to some modern historians how much they'd really achieved before the German troops were pulled out anyway to help defend Germany itself against the approaching allies is rather more questionable.
 
According to their own propaganda, which was accepted and spread at the time by leftists in Britain at the time, they did: Howover according to some modern historians how much they'd really achieved before the German troops were pulled out anyway to help defend Germany itself against the approaching allies is rather more questionable.

True, but they were a relatively small force of partisans with light weapons and sparse supplies, against not only a smattering of German occupation troops but also Chetnik and Ustase paramilitaries, who easily outnumbered them significantly. Tito was a damn good general, and an even better president. Hell, he was given the ability to be a totalitarian dictator, and he barely even had prison camps. The only people he really imprisoned were genocidal Croatian fascists too stupid to leave the country, and Stalinists. And hey, if you have to pick two groups of people to persecute, those are probably the right place to start.
 
True, but they were a relatively small force of partisans with light weapons and sparse supplies, against not only a smattering of German occupation troops but also Chetnik and Ustase paramilitaries, who easily outnumbered them significantly. Tito was a damn good general, and an even better president. Hell, he was given the ability to be a totalitarian dictator, and he barely even had prison camps. The only people he really imprisoned were genocidal Croatian fascists too stupid to leave the country, and Stalinists. And hey, if you have to pick two groups of people to persecute, those are probably the right place to start.

Believe me - they wanted to leave for greener pastures, but the allies (mainly the Brits) did not let them to Austria or sent them back if they were found later...

As an interesting sidenote the Croatian Army did fight for some days AFTER V-E day against the allies.
 
I agree that given the right POD Südtirol (South Tyrol), but certainly not Trentino, could end up back with Austria.
Slovenia, though large parts of Slovenia were historically a part of Carinthia, Styria (and in some of the border areas with a relatively large Slovene minority, some even voted to stay in Austria) and also Carniola had historic ties since the time of the HRE.
However Yugoslavia as said here before mostly liberated itself, so such a step isn't achievable, nor will there be enough support for that.
 
Not going to happen.
Austria though often oddly seen as a victim to a degree by many was squarely part of the German public enemy number 1.
Italy on the other hand was squarely a part of the allies by the end.
Slovenia was without a doubt a total victim.

For expanding Austria post ww2 IMO your best luck might be with Bavaria. More culturally and often historically close to the Austrians than the northern Germans, it would also serve to weaken Germany.
 
Believe me - they wanted to leave for greener pastures, but the allies (mainly the Brits) did not let them to Austria or sent them back if they were found later...

As an interesting sidenote the Croatian Army did fight for some days AFTER V-E day against the allies.

"Organised" resistance continued for another 10 days and it wasn't just the Croats but also Četniks, Montenegrin, Slovene and Ukrainian collaborators, as well as Germans.
 
Not going to happen.
Austria though often oddly seen as a victim to a degree by many was squarely part of the German public enemy number 1.
Italy on the other hand was squarely a part of the allies by the end.
Slovenia was without a doubt a total victim.

For expanding Austria post ww2 IMO your best luck might be with Bavaria. More culturally and often historically close to the Austrians than the northern Germans, it would also serve to weaken Germany.

OMG Franz Josef Strauss as Austrian Chancellor...
 
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