What is the Germans best strategy in World War 2?

Argh! I can't continue to sit on the sidelines. This whole thread seems to have the opinion that the USA declared war on Germany first. In the OTL that I'm aware of, it was Germany and Italy that declared war on the USA. It seems to me that the best way to keep the USA out of the European war is to not declare war on the USA.

Perhaps I'm merely confused about this thread. It just seems to me that one important point, everyone is arguing about what shade of green the sky is.

dilvish

Germany declared war, yes. That doesn't mean the USA did not want war with Germany. At the very least the USA were doing anything short of war in order to support Britain, and that disregarding the risk of war. Another way of seeing it is that the USA were _provoking_ Germany. The USA were gearing up for war, and a war with a Europe first policy. Assuming no German declaration of war, my bet is a US declaration of war on Germany by mid 1942.
 
sl

Someone mentioned that USA had a Europe first strategy and that it would have attached and declared war on Germany. To declare war on Germany Roosevelt needs a reason so he can go in front of congress and ask and even then considering that the US is already at this point involved in a war in the Pacific and that the Germans are not threatening their sphere of interest I don’t see the US congress and the public in general being in favor of a second war.
As far as Italy like I said before Italy will not invade Greece nor Egypt because Germany will make it clear that it has no intention to continue a war with the Brits but it will confine itself to a defensive strategy in west Europe. So Italy will have to expand in the east (Yugoslavia).
GB will be out of options soon and will be thrown of guard by the German strategy.
They will be internal forces inside GB that will push for a peace settlement and considering the inactivity in the west (no bombing of British cities, no U-boat campaign, no occupation of the Channel Islands) they will have an easier time to make their case.
The British Armed Forces at this time have no real punching power so they can’t organize an invasion anywhere in the German controlled Europe (Italy is not an option, Italy will not declare war on GB).
So there will be a limited war in the sky and in the North Sea.
That will not be considered as a threat by the US.
 
GB will be out of options soon and will be thrown of guard by the German strategy.
They will be internal forces inside GB that will push for a peace settlement and considering the inactivity in the west (no bombing of British cities, no U-boat campaign, no occupation of the Channel Islands) they will have an easier time to make their case.
The British Armed Forces at this time have no real punching power so they can’t organize an invasion anywhere in the German controlled Europe (Italy is not an option, Italy will not declare war on GB).
So there will be a limited war in the sky and in the North Sea.
That will not be considered as a threat by the US.

Out of what options ?

What internal forces would push for peace with no threat ?

No real punching power ? Please elaborate.
 
sl

What options do the Brits have? Where can they attach successfully in 1940 (after the defeat in France and the evacuation in Dunkirk)? Norway, Denmark, North Germany, Low Countries, France take you pick none of them will work. To close to Germany and the Brits need time to recover from the defeat in France that equals no real options and no real power to attach in west and north Europe. In the south like I said Italy will not declare war so place to attach either. The only option them have is fight in the North Sea and in the Air. Again not enough bombers not enough fighters.
There is a British Fascists party at this time and the British leadership did take in consideration to come to some sort of agreement with Germany. With more time going by that will became more of an option. And yes with no real threat from Germany there will be more pressure on the British leadership and Churchill to convince the public that a fight with Germany is a good idea and that it can be done successfully. Consider that the Brits so far had only defeats no victories.
 
What options do the Brits have? Where can they attach successfully in 1940 (after the defeat in France and the evacuation in Dunkirk)? Norway, Denmark, North Germany, Low Countries, France take you pick none of them will work. To close to Germany and the Brits need time to recover from the defeat in France that equals no real options and no real power to attach in west and north Europe. In the south like I said Italy will not declare war so place to attach either. The only option them have is fight in the North Sea and in the Air. Again not enough bombers not enough fighters.
There is a British Fascists party at this time and the British leadership did take in consideration to come to some sort of agreement with Germany. With more time going by that will became more of an option. And yes with no real threat from Germany there will be more pressure on the British leadership and Churchill to convince the public that a fight with Germany is a good idea and that it can be done successfully. Consider that the Brits so far had only defeats no victories.

Whilst I grant you that the BEF needed time to rearm and that therefore no major contribution could be made by them until the end of that year. There would of course be no need to send the armour that they did to the Middle East so that becomes immediately available. Added to that would be the unhindered developement of the RAF including Bomber Command, the unhindered developement of their supplies munitions factory transformation, arrival of Commonwealth troops etc. So yep until 1941 probably no realistic invasion possibilities against the denuded German defences.

Of course in the air and on the sea, Britain could ensure they had absolute supremacy over the Western Approaches, Channel and North Sea. Then they pick and choose where to strike whilst fostering the Resistance movements in various countries.

The Fascist movement was virtually non-existent after the thirties and the British leadership made it clear that there was to be NO peace with Hitler. Further whilst it is true the British had been driven off Continental Europe
in face to face combat they had clearly held their own against the Germans. So yes they were more than willing to go on
 
Germany concentrates all it power and the powers of its allies to the campaign in the Soviet Union.
After the fall of France the German generals convince Hitler that if he wants to invade the Soviet Union he has to leave Great Brittan alone and focus all its energy on the future war in the east.
This is probably the best chance Germany has to successfully conquer Russia.
Wasnt this Hitlers original plan?

When invading invade with almost full capacity!?
Like in Poland, France etc.
This was also the plan for Russia, but while germany was sending all his troops east for preparation, Italy started rumbling in the Balkans and Greece if I am not mistaken, they weren't rumbling very effectively so Germany send some troops south to help.
 
sl

That is exactly my point. Hitler goes with his original plan no war with GB, no bombing, no U-boat campaign in the Atlantic only defensive actions in the west from now on. He makes it clear to Mussolini that he has no intention to fight GB let alone occupy it or destroy its empire. Knowing this Mussolini will not declare war on GB nor will he attach Greece or Egypt, he will focus on Yugoslavia as a result GB will not declare war on Italy and there will be very little activity in the Mediterranean.
So Germany doesn’t have to send troops to help the Italians in Greece or in Libya.
This means more troops for Barbarosa add to that more bombers and stucas that were never lost in the Battle for Brittan (like I said Hitler decides to leave GB alone). This gives the Germans more troops to get the job done in USSR.
In December 1941 Japan attacks Pearl Harbor and the British/Dutch colonies in the Far East but this time they will be stopped by the Brits and the Japanese won’t be able to get Singapore this will change their plan of attach and they will focus more troops and airpower including carriers in the west so the battle of Midway will never happened.
So well have a war in the Far East were the British will play a bigger role that they actually did and as a result Japan will be defeated faster but Germany will have a free hand to complete the conquest of Russia.
 
You do seem to be giving Mussolini not just common sense, but second sight. Why would he NOT declare war, considering he waited until he thought that the war was almost over when he did? By declaring war, he made gains from France for Italy. If Britain is unwilling to fight in N Africa, then he makes gains there. If Britain is willing to fight, why would Italy NOT be willing to fight ? They didn't KNOW they would lose to Britain ? They didn't KNOW that their army was a paper tiger. And if Italy does fight, and lose, then Britain has a VERY obvious front it can open - Italy !

Best Regards
Grey Wolf
 
sl

Mussolini won’t declare war because Hitler with make it clear that he doesn’t want to fight the Brits, he wants peace in the west, if Mussolini wants to declare war he has to do it on his on.
If the Brits decide to declare war because Italy gets Corsica, and other territories from France even better.
Instead of using its resources to fight Germany GB will use them in the Mediterranean to fight Italy this gives Germany the quiet that it needs in the west to fight the Russians in the east.
 
Wasnt this Hitlers original plan?

Sure. Then he discovered that it takes one to quarrel, but two to make peace. He would discover the same if he tried not to bomb Britain. Sure he can - but the British keep bombing Germany. While Hitler was a dictator, only ill-informed people like the initiator of this proposal believe he could do, and assessed that he could do, whatever he wanted. He was very keen about popularity and fully aware that he had constituencies to satisfy, including the generals, especially at the beginning of the war.
Being bombed without bombing back? Come on.
 
Everything up to the spring of 42 is fine. Tinkering with it almost always leads to a worse outcome for Germany somewhere down the line or presumes so many changes that plausability becomes difficult to accept. I would that even Barbarossa must be considered a most successful failure. Things could have gone far far worse.

The 42 campaign is where mistakes kick in, and it pretty much collapses from there on.

Even if Hitler were to follow all these instructions in order to ignore the British, what does it gain him? I have never entirely been sold on the argument that the losses inccured in the Battle of Britain were somehow decisive in the failure of Barbarossa. Do you really think Moscow wasn't taken for the want of a handful of extra aircraft operating on an already overstretched logistical system?
 
sl

GB has no serious capabilities to significantly bomb Germany at this time plus the war in the air favors the defenders not the attackers. As for his popularity even at the height of the bombing campaign his popularity among the Germans didn’t suffer much.
Now you mentioned that it takes two to make peace that is true but ever if a state of war exist between GB and Germany as long as the Brits don’t invade that want mater much because time will work on the German side (Japan attaches in the Far East and most importantly the conquest of European Russian will make Germany look stronger and it will free a substantial part of its army). This whole strategy works if Hitler understands that he can’t win against GB and that North Atlantic is considered a US sphere of interest so he can’t disrupt trade by use U-boats.
So after the fall of France he start preparing for Barbarosa no distractions (no U-boat campaign in the Atlantic, no terror bombing of London or other British cities, no Greece campaign, no Yugoslavian campaign, no troops in Africa which means more trucks for the long supply lines in Russia). So an additional 10 divisions, 400-500 bombers, 300 stuca dive-bombers, and Barbarosa starts in late May or early June. The Germans still have enough troops stationed in France and Norway the only 2 options that GB has for a land invasion in Europe.
This is more than enough for Germany to take Moscow in early November.
 
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