What is Octavian married Servilia Vatia instead of Clodia Pulchra

[Violaria]

If Octavian never broke his engagement with Publius Servilius Vatia Isauricus and Junia Prima's daughter, do you think things would have been much different?

Would it have reflected poorly on him to marry Brutus niece?

Would he divorce her just as soon as he had Clodia?

Would Lepidus son have married someone else?

Would it have changed his relationship with Antony any?

 

[isabella]

If Octavian never broke his engagement with Publius Servilius Vatia Isauricus and Junia Prima's daughter, do you think things would have been much different?

Would it have reflected poorly on him to marry Brutus niece?

Would he divorce her just as soon as he had Clodia?

Would Lepidus son have married someone else?

Would it have changed his relationship with Antony any?

Well Octavian’s first wedding was decided for cementing the alliance with Antony (who was Clodia’s stepfather). Likely Octavian divorced from her soon because he hated her mother Fulvia (and was unwilling to have children from the daughter of THAT woman).
Almost nobody will think to Servilia as Brutus’ niece: true who Brutus is her mother’s half-brother and Cassius is married to one of her aunts BUT Servilia’s father is a important Cesarian AND she is also niece of a powerful Caesarian aka Lepidus (husband of her other aunt). As likely both Lepidus and his brother had only one or two sons each and no daughter, she would work well. Add the fact who Lepidus’ eldest son was engaged to Antony’s daughter (the one born from his first wedding to his cousin) and you put Lepidus as mediator between the other two Triumvirs (something fine for both Lepidus and Antony, less for Octavian who married Clodia for establishing a direct alliance with Antony)

 

[Violaria]

Well Octavian’s first wedding was decided for cementing the alliance with Antony (who was Clodia’s stepfather). Likely Octavian divorced from her soon because he hated her mother Fulvia (and was unwilling to have children from the daughter of THAT woman).
Almost nobody will think to Servilia as Brutus’ niece: true who Brutus is her mother’s half-brother and Cassius is married to one of her aunts BUT Servilia’s father is a important Cesarian AND she is also niece of a powerful Caesarian aka Lepidus (husband of her other aunt). As likely both Lepidus and his brother had only one or two sons each and no daughter, she would work well. Add the fact who Lepidus’ eldest son was engaged to Antony’s daughter (the one born from his first wedding to his cousin) and you put Lepidus as mediator between the other two Triumvirs (something fine for both Lepidus and Antony, less for Octavian who married Clodia for establishing a direct alliance with Antony)

Great points. Do you think that the relationship between Octavian and Lepidus would have taken longer to fall apart in a reality where he married Servilia? Her grandmother was a powerful woman and a lover to Caesar, and her aunt Tertia was romoured to be Caesar's love child, do you think Octavian would have been more intent on assimilating those connections into his family?

 

[isabella]

Great points. Do you think that the relationship between Octavian and Lepidus would have taken longer to fall apart in a reality where he married Servilia? Her grandmother was a powerful woman and a lover to Caesar, and her aunt Tertia was romoured to be Caesar's love child, do you think Octavian would have been more intent on assimilating those connections into his family?

Well that is debatable. Without a direct alliance to Antony and both of them tied to Lepidus Octavian will be likely unable to attack Lepidus

 

[Violaria]

Well that is debatable. Without a direct alliance to Antony and both of them tied to Lepidus Octavian will be likely unable to attack Lepidus

Would have made for a very different Rome, wonder if the two of them together would have had an easier time defeating Antony and Cleopatra.

 

[isabella]

Would have made for a very different Rome, wonder if the two of them together would have had an easier time defeating Antony and Cleopatra.

If Octavian was not so determined to take full power in Rome alone (and he need to destroy both Lepidus and Sextus Pompey before attacking Mark Antony) you will not have any war against Mark Antony (who while quite Hellenized still remained a Roman, and likely a Republican, until his last day) and Cleopatra (who until Octavian’s smear campaign against her was an ally of Rome AND while the official enemy of the OTL war still counted only little more than Antony’s other oriental allies in their camp).

Plus in any circumstances Lepidus and Antony’s alliance was much longer lasting (in OTL was destroyed because Octavian persuaded Antony and many others who Lepidus was a traitor) and would become more direct than the one between Lepidus and Octavian as soon Lepidus’ son and Antony’s daughter became old enough to be married

 

[Violaria]

If Octavian was not so determined to take full power in Rome alone (and he need to destroy both Lepidus and Sextus Pompey before attacking Mark Antony) you will not have any war against Mark Antony (who while quite Hellenized still remained a Roman, and likely a Republican, until his last day) and Cleopatra (who until Octavian’s smear campaign against her was an ally of Rome AND while the official enemy of the OTL war still counted only little more than Antony’s other oriental allies in their camp).

Plus in any circumstances Lepidus and Antony’s alliance was much longer lasting (in OTL was destroyed because Octavian persuaded Antony and many others who Lepidus was a traitor) and would become more direct than the one between Lepidus and Octavian as soon Lepidus’ son and Antony’s daughter became old enough to be married

Do you feel that this timeline would not likely result in a Roman Empire as we knew it with a Julo-whatever dynasty?

 

[isabella]

Do you feel that this timeline would not likely result in a Roman Empire as we knew it with a Julo-whatever dynasty?

Yes, absolutely. The only reason for which Octavian married the daughter of a woman he absolutely hated was who he needed a direct matrimonial alliance with Antony for going on with his plan for reaching total power in Rome. Right now Antony, Lepidus and Sextus Pompey are all more powerful than him and he has still little more than his title as heir of Caesar. A matrimonial alliance with the Sevilii Vatii, Aemilii Lepidi and Servilii Caepioni (together with his relations with the Marcii Philippi from the weddings of his mother and aunt) will help him to consolidate his power but will not give him the starting base he need for his escalation to total power (unlike his weddings to Clodia, Sempronia AND the wedding who he forced between Antony and Octavia). A wedding to Servilia would be more like his OTL Livia (without the scandal), useful for consolidating his power not for establishing or increasing his power.

 

[Violaria]

Yes, absolutely. The only reason for which Octavian married the daughter of a woman he absolutely hated was who he needed a direct matrimonial alliance with Antony for going on with his plan for reaching total power in Rome. Right now Antony, Lepidus and Sextus Pompey are all more powerful than him and he has still little more than his title as heir of Caesar. A matrimonial alliance with the Sevilii Vatii, Aemilii Lepidi and Servilii Caepioni (together with his relations with the Marcii Philippi from the weddings of his mother and aunt) will help him to consolidate his power but will not give him the starting base he need for his escalation to total power (unlike his weddings to Clodia, Sempronia AND the wedding who he forced between Antony and Octavia). A wedding to Servilia would be more like his OTL Livia (without the scandal), useful for consolidating his power not for establishing or increasing his power.

This is all really interesting. I wonder why he even considered marrying Servilia at one point, was Antony and Fulvia's daughter already engaged to someone else at that time?

 

[isabella]

This is all really interesting. I wonder why he even considered marrying Servilia at one point, was Antony and Fulvia's daughter already engaged to someone else at that time?

Antony has no daughter by Fulvia. His eldest daughter was born from his first wedding to his own first cousin Antonia and was engaged to Lepidus’ son in 44 aC and in any case she was born only in 50 aC, so she was too young for Octavian who needed to marry quickly, while Clodia Pulchra (daughter of Fulvia by her first husband Clodius) was born in 57 aC so she was more ready to marry. Either Octavian was engaged to Servilia before the Triumvirate as mean for getting the support of her father and uncle-in-law OR at the establishment of the Triumvirate both Antony and Lepidus offered to Octavian brides from their family (respectively daughter and niece of their wives) and Octavian simply decided who Clodia, while daughter of two people he highly despised, was the more valuable match so married her without consummating the wedding and waited for the right time to replace her with a better wife (aka Sextus Pompey’s aunt (or sister?)-in-law)