What is Before 1900's "Sealion"?

Especially without British or French intervention; there's no way the Confederacy on its own will survive the Union onslaught.
 
The United States conquering all of Mexico - it would be possible to take the entire country, but not to hold in the long run.

The Confederacy gaining independence, and then shortly after abolishing slavery - This one's a twofer, since it's unlikely they'd get independence in the first place, and if they did it would be even less likely to turn around and end slavery. Yes, the civil war was about states rights, but more specifically it was mostly about states rights to own slaves.

Various nations "pulling a Meiji" - There were very specific conditions in place that allowed Japan to rapidly industrialize, and unfortunately not very many other nations had them. With the right POD, of course, it would be possible to put those conditions into place, but many people only seem to be interested in a POD in the 1800s, after it's too late for many areas.

It's probably not right to call all of the above outright ASB... but then I am very hesitant to call anything ASB short of divine or extraterrestrial intervention. It would just be a very uphill battle to properly explain and plausibly justify them in any TL.
 
Napoleon defeating the Seventh Coalition is definitely a Sealion.There's no way he could win even if he won Waterloo decisively.
 
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Deleted member 97083

Napoleon invading Britain, although that's a lot more feasible than Operation Sealion itself.

The Byzantine Empire after the 1390s recovering by any means except for Timur or the Crusade of Varna winning against the Ottomans. Especially the Byzantines recovering between 1444-1453.

Charles Martel losing the Battle of Tours, leading to the Umayyads taking all of France (not common here, but as a common AH assumption like "if the Germans won Sealion we'd be speaking German" it's comparable)

Confederates winning a surprise victory due to one battle that occurs after the high tide point of the war in 1863. Not all Confederate victories are like Sealion, but the late, out of the blue victory ones are comparable.

Mongols conquering all of Europe to the Bay of Biscay.

Mongols invading Japan successfully.
 
For an older time period: many Byzantine TLs downplay the inherent flaws in their governmental system and/or have them reconquer territory that has been lost to them for centuries. I have serious misgivings about most post-Islamic PoD TLs that have them reconquer Egypt, for example.

EDIT: more fair to say post-Manzikert PoDs where they reconquer Egypt; I suppose it's plausible enough in the 700s
 

Deleted member 97083

Spanish Armada if it leads to a Spanish England and not just a Catholic Spanish-allied England.

For an older time period: many Byzantine TLs downplay the inherent flaws in their governmental system and/or have them reconquer territory that has been lost to them for centuries. I have serious misgivings about most post-Islamic PoD TLs that have them reconquer Egypt, for example.
Depends on what you mean by post-Islamic POD. The Arab-Byzantine Wars were extremely dynamic and extremely long, not the instant fell swoop of conquest that is assumed, and really they could have gone either way. But I get what you mean in general. Post-Fourth Crusade Byzantiums especially.

edit: nevermind, didn't see your edit
 
Depends on what you mean by post-Islamic POD. The Arab-Byzantine Wars were extremely dynamic and extremely long, not the instant fell swoop of conquest that is assumed, and really they could have gone either way. But I get what you mean in general. Post-Fourth Crusade Byzantiums especially.

Yeah, I decided to edit since it was originally a bit of an exaggeration. The Arab-Byzantine Wars really were something else; the outcome seemingly could have been anything from the Arabs pushed all the way back to Arabia to Muslim Constantinople centuries early!

But yes, by the time the Sultanate of Rûm is set up, really even before 1204, Byzantium is not going to be dominating the Middle East again for a long time, if ever.
 

Deleted member 97083

It was completely possible for the Greeks to be conquered by Persia, but if it results in Greek culture dying, it's a Sealion because it ignores the structure of the Achaemenid empire which preserved the cultures inside of it.
 
Alternative colonization in general.

1. China and Japan are never going to colonize first.

2. Vinland was at the far, far end of a logistical rope; keeping it going was way more trouble than it was worth. The most that could happen here is a minor Columbia Exchange, and maybe some plagues hit America early, before the Vikings pack up and leave.

3. The Iroquois or other native North American nations are probably not going to survive, especially with a post-1492 PoD. Some could possibly become protectorates but if they're living on good land they will likely be evicted. Native South American nations were more populous and organized and stood a better chance, especially the isolated Incas.
 
A lot of pre 1900s Hindu Nationalist wanks fall into this category. There have been a few Hindu nationalists both here and on soc.history.what-if that have come up with Sealionesque scenarios like "What if a superpower Indian Empire colonized Europe instead of the other way around?" Of course, the question is why an Indian Empire pre-1900s would need to colonize Europe in the first place. As far as Indians were concerned, Europe had nothing they needed (too cold, too far away) which couldn't be gotten by freely trading with each other. Nor was Hinduism ever a proselytizing religion. So "saving souls" is out. The only reason left is that it is a revenge fantasy.
 
A lot of pre 1900s Hindu Nationalist wanks fall into this category. There have been a few Hindu nationalists both here and on soc.history.what-if that have come up with Sealionesque scenarios like "What if a superpower Indian Empire colonized Europe instead of the other way around?" Of course, the question is why an Indian Empire pre-1900s would need to colonize Europe in the first place. As far as Indians were concerned, Europe had nothing they needed (too cold, too far away) which couldn't be gotten by freely trading with each other. Nor was Hinduism ever a proselytizing religion. So "saving souls" is out. The only reason left is that it is a revenge fantasy.

Maybe some Indian polity snapping up parts of Britain or Benelux for their valuable coal? Serving as a launching pad for trading with a unified European polity (like how the Philippines were colonized to trade with China)? Of course, it would require a POD so far back it wouldn't be a Britain or India we'd recognize.
 
Definitely Byzantine wanks.
Other borderline ASB-things I might make myself guilty of, too (while wanking Byzantium is really nothing I´d ever do):
Industrialising the Roman Empire
Republicanism, democracy and similar concepts establishing themselves firmly in pre-modern times
Successful indigenous resistance against colonization or other miraculous indigenous (mainly American) successes
 
Golfman76:

Do you mean in the sense of any similarly overdone timelines like Sealion or literal invasions of England by foreign powers very likely to fail?
 
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