What if we lost the Revolutionary War?

I haven't been here a terribly long time but is this really necessary?

Necessary? Yes.

There's absolutely nothing in either the title or even the OP which state which revolutionary war this is about. So I took it to be the french revolutionary war ( and it's impact on America ). This is fully in line with the title and OP.

Then, maybe the OP author is not from USA ( despite his location ) and is thinking of yet another revolutionary war. There were quite a few in history.

When posting a subject, you should always clarify what you are talking about in the post and not assume that evryone know what you think.

For exemple, if I posted a Topic about ' WI the King was imprisonned and not beheaded', I would, 'obviously' be speaking about Louis XVI of France. But I just have an inkling of an idea that this would not be the first one someone from Uk would be thinking of.

Other exemples : when I speak about the revolution, I obviously am speaking about the 1789 french one. Same thing, the emperor is obviously Napoleon I, Phillipe II is obviously Phillippe Auguste of France; same thing about Henry I to Henry IV, I'm obviously thinking of french kings there ( and even Henry V ). However, given the various background of members, I think it would be just a little confusing if I used this without clarification, preferably in the title, but at least in the OP.

So, you see, unless you want to see how people from different background interprete you OP, you should clarify what you are talking about and not use ambiguous wording.



Is it that offensive?

Offensive? not very; I'm taking it as a self-comment on the OP author.

Annoying as hell and making for confused discussions? Definitely.
 
For one thing, the American colonies would have stagnated along the Eastern seaboard. Shortly after the revolution, thousands of American rebels would have left the colonies and resettled in friendlier locales, many probably ending up down in Louisiana and possibly even Spanish Texas.

Without the ability to expand westward, the American colonial families would not have been nearly as large (average 7 children) as OTL and so the population might have stagnated. Slavery almost certainly would have died out quickly without the plantation economy having the essential ability to expand into new lands.

Disagree about the Stagnation. Britain controlled the entire east Coast from Labrador to Key West/Bahamas west to the Mississippi.
If the American Revolution fails, all this plus land in OTL Canada West of the Lakes remains British.
The losing Americans escape west of the Mountains, were the British don't have the Forces to keep them out, or make them leave.
However just like the number of Loyalists that left to Canada was numbered in the Thousands, with most staying put, so will the number of --Patroits-- who flee will be simular.

As such whe will end with a British NAU, and a -Something of New Spain/Mexico- sharing the NAmerican Continent.
 
I'm convinced that the loss of the revolution would not be the end of the drive for American Independence. Its frequently overlooked that parts of Canada tried to rebel in 1837-1838 and if they had tried that after the "Americans" lost the revoluton then the patriots would have just jumped on the band wagon again. I'd bet that instead of a rosy Anglo-American Empire that would conquer the globe, Britain would instead be stuck in a bloodbath every couple of generations. America would probably get its independence either during the Napoleonic war, some World War 1 equivalent like the Irish or some World War 2 equivalent like the Indians. The driving ideal for freedom and independence is simply too much to keep down by any means, as history has shown. And when a group 1/6 of the size of your home country's population rebels you've got more problems than just winning a war.
 
Would any distinction have been made between America and Canada? or would it all have become a single Dominion?
I think maybe some of history's troublemakers like Hitler might have behaved more cautiously if America had remained British, because unlike in our timeline, there would never have been any question that a war against the UK would have involved America.
For this reason, and some of the others listed above, one can make a case that the world would have been better off if the American Revolution had failed. But that doesn't mean I believe the Patriot cause was totally wrong, and the Crown side right.

I find it strange that 'US loses the ARW' lines always seem to end up with a 'dominion of (at least) the united states'. The main reason that 13 rather disparate colonies worked together was to throw off the British rule. They had a bit of a tough time, the first years, staying together when they had to keep united to keep the British away. If they stay in the Empire, I think there is an excellent chance that they'll end up as, say 5 states, instead of a single one.

While it's in Britain's interest to have fewer than 13 administrations to deal with, it's also not in her interest to have 1 big powerful one. There might be some light overarching framework to help negotiate differences closer than London, but I think we're going to end up with New England, New York, Pennsylvania, Virginia at least. What Delaware, Maryland, New Jersey and the southern 3 do is up to them.

In that case, the various Maritime provinces would likely ultimately unite (like New England). Quebec would be separate, whatever her boundaries end up as.
 
If the American colonists were defeated by the British in the American Revolutionary War, then America, and the rest of the world would be completely different from our time line. The butterflies are just too significant.
I mostly agree with much of your take. Of course ex-British colonies have tended to do better than ex-colonies of other nations. Although Australia and Canada may not be headline news everyday, they're hardly insignificant, nor backwater. There likely would be less territorial expansion, and we wouldn't see the exquisite irony of political blow back that de-throned the French aristocracy based on the example of the American War of Independence.

Though I think France would have eventually had a revolution, maybe later, but the social conditions that led there are still there regardless of what happens in the Americas. Undoubtedly the Revolution would have a different character.
By the 21st century, the world stage in terms of political, economic, and cultural power, will be centered in Europe, while North America will be sort of a backwater. The population will be significantly less. Any military or economic superpowers will be in other parts of the world. No one in the world will play baseball, basketball, or American football. Jazz would never have been invented. Not sure who invents the lightbulb, the phonograph, the telephone, or the moving pictures. Does anyone develop nuclear weapons? Do only the Russians make it into space? Who develops air travel?

Not sure if the world would be a better place or worse place without the rise of the USA, but it sure would be different.
US dominance of the latter half of the Twentieth century is largely down to it emerging victorious, and largely undamaged at home, from the second world war, a conflict that left virtually every other major country devastated. Would the first or second world wars occur? What would they look like? These are major questions that need to be answered before you can begin to ask about the space race.

Of course many of the inventions you cite aren't American or wholly American anyway. The Manhattan project wasn't American, it was American, Australian, British and Canadian, also German/Austrian if you include the nationality of many of the scientists. Some of those other inventions are contentious, as arguably they weren't invented, as much as patented first by Americans...
 
I'm convinced that the loss of the revolution would not be the end of the drive for American Independence. Its frequently overlooked that parts of Canada tried to rebel in 1837-1838 and if they had tried that after the "Americans" lost the revoluton then the patriots would have just jumped on the band wagon again. I'd bet that instead of a rosy Anglo-American Empire that would conquer the globe, Britain would instead be stuck in a bloodbath every couple of generations. America would probably get its independence either during the Napoleonic war, some World War 1 equivalent like the Irish or some World War 2 equivalent like the Indians. The driving ideal for freedom and independence is simply too much to keep down by any means, as history has shown. And when a group 1/6 of the size of your home country's population rebels you've got more problems than just winning a war.

No, not "parts of Canada tried to rebel", people in Canada tried to rebel, in 1837 - 1838, William Lyon Mackenzie and his merry band had little popular support, though Papineau had a bit more support, both failed fairly quickly (and in the case of Mackenzie abysmally and spectacularly). I'm not so sure that Americans would revolt again if they lost the American Revolution. If Parliment at the time had been a bit more amendable to the issues the Revolutionaries were trying to resolve, there probably wouldn't be another rebellion or if there was it would be extremely minor as per Mackenzie and Papineau.
 
For one thing, the American colonies would have stagnated along the Eastern seaboard. Shortly after the revolution, thousands of American rebels would have left the colonies and resettled in friendlier locales, many probably ending up down in Louisiana and possibly even Spanish Texas.

You know, the other British settler colony in North America also stretches from Sea to Sining Sea.
 

arlindi193

Banned
If America Lost the Revolutionary war i think America will still part of England by today and England Will Take Texas and California and Alaska and also England will Take Louisiana During Napoleons War

Years After America Lost the Revolutionary War:

Mexican–British War

Date

April 25, 1846 – February 2, 1848

Location

Texas, New Mexico, California; Northern, Central, and Eastern Mexico; Mexico City


Result
  • British victory
    Treaty of Guadalupe Hidalgo
  • End of all conflict between Britain and Mexico
Territorial
changes

Mexican Cession


British-Spanish War

Date: April 25 – August 12, 1898

Location: Cuba and Puerto Rico (Caribbean)
Philippine Islands and Guam (Asia-Pacific)
DateApril 25 – August 12, 1898

Result: Treaty of Paris

Outbreak of the British-Philipine War

Territorial Changes: Spain cedes the Philippine Islands, Puerto Rico, Cuba, and Guam to the United Kingdom for the sum of $20 million.


Phillipine-British War

Date: Filipino Rebellion: June 2, 1899 – July 4, 1902
Moro Rebellion: 1899–1913

Location: Philippines, Southeast Asia

Result: British victory and dissolution of the Philippine Republic.

Territorial Changes: The Philippines becomes Part of the United Kingdom.
 
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It might also be noted that not every last American thinks "we" losing would have been a bad thing. I'd prefer a US that is more like Canada than like the current US. It'd be better for the world as a whole, esp much of Latin America, Vietnam, Iraq, etc, if the US had never become a world power.

I'm from the us (Illinois) and I sort of wish we had lost the war. But to the point, I don't think America would be that different. I think after a failed revolution Britain wouldn't want it to happen again and so grant autonomy to the 13 colonies (and maybe Canada once it grows a little.)

But I still think that the US would expand west (with the help of Canadian settlers) and would end up the same size as modern day continental US.

The hopefully sometime in the 19th or 20th century the white colonies would federate creating a superpower more powerful that the USSR or the USA. Probably a hyper-power with dominions all over the world and a large English population.

Though I'm not sure if the British would settle in Australia-New Zealand. But Imperialist do always want more, so we could see a British empire that still include all OTL dominions and colonies but include the entire US/Canada.

Although many seem to think that the empire would devolve (which its non-white possesions probably would) but an all British british empire that included the US would have an economy to supply its entire empire many times over.

but that's just my thoughts (or kind of what I wished would have happened)
 

Morty Vicar

Banned
I'd imagine it would have been fought over and over til they had won. Once the revolutionary spark has lit the fires of rebellion its very difficult to extinguish. In fact there's very little you can do other than supressing revolutionaries, and turning them to martyrs. With a growing influx of Irish, Germans, Poles etc the loyalty to the British grows ever weaker, the opposition gets stronger and eventually its advantages in terms of local knowledge, and the distance from the centre of British power (not to mention their later engagements distracting them in Ireland, Culloden, India etc) pay dividends.

However if the population was mainly of British descent (as in canada) and had good reason to remain loyal to the crown, then there would be some key differences. Slavery would have been abolished from the outset, so you could argue there would be no civil war. Also the US as such would not have expanded from the thirteen colonies, so maybe the rest is de fecto Mexican. In which case the later American- Mexican war, despite the support of the British Empire for the US, could be tipped in favour of Mexico. However on the flipside there may be no distinction between Canada and the USA, Alaska may well remain in Russian control. I'd agree that eventually the USA would go the way of OTL Canada, and gain independence but retain commonwealth membership. As such it would probably have still joined the allies in ww1 and 2. Without the oil fields of Texas etc it would not be as rich as it is today, arguably the native American population would be higher, the African American population could go either way, maybe when they gained their freedom more went to Sierra Leone, or maybe as freed men more stayed and started new lives as would happen later OTL. The constitution would never have been written, or if it had then in a radically different form. The flag would possibly be that of the East India Trading Company, or replaced by a later design as with canada. Politically it may have been much the same, but less affected by theological conservatism perhaps.
 
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