What if WALLIES supported French resistance on Vercours Plateau?

This topic came up on www.forgottenweapons.com.
During July 1944, about 4,000 French resistance fighters were slaughtered on the Vervours Plateau in South Eastern France. ..... a few kilometres south of Grenoble. Resistance fighters only received one supply drop from Britain and were disappointed that WALLIES never dropped paratroopers to assist them.

WI WALLIES seriously supported the Vercours Republic?
How long would WALLIED air forces need to clear Luftwaffe from the skies over Vercours?
How long would (glider-landed field engineers need to build a C-47 sized airstrip?
How many WALLIED troops would be needed to secure the plateau?
How many tons of supplies to sustain them?
How much could the Republic of Vercours mess with German supply lines reaching to Marsailles?
 
This topic came up on www.forgottenweapons.com.
During July 1944, about 4,000 French resistance fighters were slaughtered on the Vervours Plateau in South Eastern France. ..... a few kilometres south of Grenoble. Resistance fighters only received one supply drop from Britain and were disappointed that WALLIES never dropped paratroopers to assist them.

WI WALLIES seriously supported the Vercours Republic?
How long would WALLIED air forces need to clear Luftwaffe from the skies over Vercours?
How long would (glider-landed field engineers need to build a C-47 sized airstrip?
How many WALLIED troops would be needed to secure the plateau?
How many tons of supplies to sustain them?
How much could the Republic of Vercours mess with German supply lines reaching to Marsailles?


Hah - as soon as I saw the title - I knew exactly who you had been watching ;)

The problem was that they were fighting very good troops with very good supplies and in particular the Eastern European soldiers in German Service who were particulalrly savage in bringing the Eastern front to France.

I draw several parrelels to the Warsaw uprising

I think its fair to say that the Wallies were distracted during this time in their efforts to liberate all of France and where conducting some heavy fighting in Normandy plus preparing for Dragoon as well as actions ongoing in Italy - perhaps a better POD would be that the Vercours Republic waited until the Dragoon landings before kicking off?

The German forces would have been seriously distracted and unable to respond in the same fashion while the Vercours Republic would directly aid the Dragoon landings by drawing off some German elements and causing issues in their rear areas.
 
I'd have thought this a troll if I'd not been familiar with the person posting it, and not read it carefully.

How long would WALLIED air forces need to clear Luftwaffe from the skies over Vercours?

Depends on the definition of "clear". A continual CAP over the area could make things unpleasant for the enemy AF but not stop it. Without a reliable radar warning system and a minimal intercept direction control station its too easy to miss incoming aircraft.

How long would (glider-landed field engineers need to build a C-47 sized airstrip?

Depends on how rugged the site chosen is. Really favorable ground could have a landing strip scratched out in a day. It could not be used in rain, but it would be there. We'd have to search the are available to understand if there was a suitable site, that was not vulnerable to enemy artillery or ground attack. Airheads are notoriously vulnerable in this. Normally tho its takes roughly a week to rough out a crude airfield, can take four times that, or less. It really depends on the ground. Getting a all weather landing strip and hardstands for unloading requires the ability to quarry transport, spread, and compact gravel. Unlikely you will do that with glider carried equipment.

How many WALLIED troops would be needed to secure the plateau?

To repel the force used by the Germans 10,000 airborne & the 4,000 French could do it. If they had sufficient artillery, including AT weapons. Of course the attacker has the option of adding more to the counter attack force. To hold off all comers depends on a really robust artillery group. That gets tough to move in, and supply.

How many tons of supplies to sustain them?

Fifteen tons a day to feed 10,000 US Paras. Fuel, stockpiling ammunition & other reserve supplies, & resisting 'probes' ramps that up to 100+ tons a day fairly quickly. & the supply for the French must be included. Then there is material to support that end of the air supply operation. Once the German attack starts 200+ tons daily could be needed if there is a robust field artillery & AT gun group defending.

How much could the Republic of Vercours mess with German supply lines reaching to Marsailles?

Very little in relation to the effort. The Army Group in southern France had sufficient supplies on hand. When they retreated in August they abandoned those lacking time to evacuate much.

France lost close to 300,000 civilians killed in combat through the war. Not a lot compared to some other nations. Ike was really reluctant to see another ten or fifty thousand killed in a full blown revolt is France. The OSS, Jedburgh teams, ect.. were restricted until it was clear France would be be overrun. That is not until mid August.
 
... - perhaps a better POD would be that the Vercours Republic waited until the Dragoon landings before kicking off?

The German forces would have been seriously distracted and unable to respond in the same fashion while the Vercours Republic would directly aid the Dragoon landings by drawing off some German elements and causing issues in their rear areas.

Ayuh. Turning the French underground loose, the Jedburgh teams, & the rest in August made the retreat from France that much more difficult for the Germans. A extra 25,000 prisoners may have been swept up due to this interference. The distracted and disorganized Germans took little effective action. At least one group in central France sought US soldiers to surrender to so they would not have to fight the French resistance. Just a couple weeks earlier they'd have dealt harshly with the French.
 
To repel the force used by the Germans 10,000 airborne & the 4,000 French could do it. If they had sufficient artillery, including AT weapons. Of course the attacker has the option of adding more to the counter attack force. To hold off all comers depends on a really robust artillery group. That gets tough to move in, and supply.
In July 1944, did they have that many (or even any) airborne troops available? The UK 6th Airborne Division was for instance fighting in Normandy until the 27th of August, and US airborne troops were likely to be doing the same thing. Given what else was going on, I'd be very surprised if there were any Paras left available - so at the most the Allies could have done a Dien Bien Phu and thrown infantry without parachute training out of C-47s and hoped that most of them landed OK.
 
The US Abn Div we're withdrawn to the UK late June. The Brit 1st Abn was in the UK, as was the Polish Abn Brigade. I'm unsure when the US 13th or 17th Abn Div arrived in the UK.

In July Monty considered a airborne drop and corps size amphib op on the west coast of the Contentin Peninsula to break the Normandy deadlock. Can't recall why he passed on it.
 
You have to remember the 'French Resistance' was not a monobloc in the same way that the Polish Home Army was. It was highly fragmentary and plauged by intercine fighting and disputes. Outside of the Jedburgh oprganised operations in preperation for Overlord, they got very little done in aid of the overall war effort. IIRC by 1944 Allied high command was very wary of favouring any of the resistance groups in France with large amounts of supplies and weapons seeing them as potential threats to the Free French government assuming power after liberation, de Gaulle in particular was rather invested in this, for obvious reasons. Eisenhower et. al. certainly did not want to have to deal with a French civil war in their rear as the Allied armies advanced into Germany, and so cut off most of the groups in the months prior.

Logistically it would have been very difficult to supply more than token assistance to the partisan uprising, given that maximum effort was being expended to maintain the Normandy beachhead and build up to break out, there just wouldn't have been the supplies or transportation capacity available at such short notice to do much at all.
Also the airbourne units had suffered heavy losses during Overlord and and had been withdrawn to the UK for rest and refit, not really being available for combat operations again untill August, when the 1st Allied Airbourne Army was formed.

As others have said, the only way signficant assistance could have been given was if the Vercors uprising was a co-ordinated effort with Operation Dragoon. The planning for the invasion and liberation of France never called for the Resistance forces to fight on the field in conventional battle against occupation forces, but rather to harry and harrass the Germans with guerilla attacks where possible. Standing orders from the co-ordianting teams was in fact to disperse when Allied army units drew near to avoid friendly fire incidents. It seems like in the Vercors Uprsising local comamnders got over eager, and thought that the German Army in France would soon be swept away. The unfortunate result being that they were isolated and defeated by superior firepower with little hope of rescue.

That being said I could see a scenario where Churchill mght get frsutrated with the slow progress in the advance from the beachhead and latch onto a large scale guerilla uprsiing in osuthern France as a way of distracting the German army. He might be able to overule de Gaulle and get some supplies directed to them. It wouldn't be enough though. The Maquis might put up a better fight, and the surivors might feel a little less hard done by the allies, but the 'Republic' would still be crushed.

The fact that they declared a Republic in ita self suggests that they had political ambitions counter to that of de Gaulle and the Free French government, which lends credence to the theory that he opposed support specfically for politcal reasons.
 
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