What if TL-191 was actually real? What's beyond 1945?

[the Imperium of Canada]

So wouldn't Imperial Japan be in an excellent position post SGW? Their metropol has been completely unscathed, they seemingly have almost complete domination over East and South East Asia going off of what we know about the situation over there, none of their potential major rivals (Russia, the United States, and China) are going to be in a condition to really challenge them for a long while at the very least, and (when it suits them) they're probably going to be the superpower that anti colonial partisans (or more accurately the ones rebelling against European colonialism) are going to rely on.

In fact, their situation is perhaps not to unlike the OTL United States after World War II.

 

[AG_AG]

Not the same. Native black Africans greatly outnumber white Afrikaners. The only way the white Afrikaners can turn the tide is with another anti-black genocide. And from the moral side of things, it's a white supremacist apartheid state trying to oppress black Africans, not Vietnamese countrymen fighting for independence.

Well America would be fighting for the black people as mentioned earlier, so that is good.

I fail to see how fascinating it is to see a white Afrikaner supremacist state obliterate black liberationist movements. Maybe that's just me.

It was not me being facisnatwd by balck people dying, it's to show that the German guns have a ton of power.

That‘s already the TNO TL.

If having a Vietnam in South Africa is not your cup of tea, then maybe such a war being set in India might be a more unconventional and interesting choice

 

[Born in the USSA]

That‘s already the TNO TL.

Doesn't change the fact it would make a perfect Vietnam analogue in TL-191.

 

[Divergent54]

Imho, a Vietnam analogue would probably be experienced by Germany following decolonisation, in which liberationist groups would be funded by the US assuming a Germano-American Cold War. If anyone wants to go a Germano-American cold war direction . . .

 

[Cire]

I think the US wouldn't let the South be one unified Confederacy, though. I imagine the South being split up into the individual states or into two or three regional countries.

But I only think that would be willing to do that if they thought that they could absolutely control the situation.

 

[Born in the USSA]

But I only think that would be willing to do that if they thought that they could absolutely control the situation.

If the US absorbed the former Mexican states, Louisiana, Florida and Cuba (all states that went for the Radical Liberals over the Whigs/Freedomites) I think they could keep a handle on things

 

[Divergent54]

But I only think that would be willing to do that if they thought that they could absolutely control the situation.

Northern border states and especially Virginia would be absorbed into the US. If the US decides to release the ex-CSA, they'll need to create new homelands for the surviving African Americans . Probably two black nations would be created: New Africa aroundthe Mississippi river with New Orleans being a US port; and the second around the tidewater region called Gullah Geechee. The white southern ethno-states could be set up in the middle.

Also, because of the grave importance of the Mississippi River, the United States is definitely going to want somebody friendly down in the lower Mississippi river basin which is why there'll probably be a New Africa and an American New Orleans to ensure safe passageways through the Mississippi. Again, the Mississippi River is just way too important to fall into some hostile power. Economics alone dictate the US need to control the Mississippi river

 

[the Imperium of Canada]

Imho, a Vietnam analogue would probably be experienced by Germany following decolonisation, in which liberationist groups would be funded by the US assuming a Germano-American Cold War. If anyone wants to go a Germano-American cold war direction . . .

I can't quite see a American/Soviet style split, but I could definitely see relations cooling considerably, especially if more positive feelings about African Americans in the United States stemming from the horrors of the Black Holocaust end up leading to considerably more negative feelings about German imperialism in Africa.

Also potentially paranoia that the entire African continent is going to fall into Japanese orbit if they're the only ones funding resistance groups.

 

[AG_AG]

If anyone wants to go a Germano-American cold war direction . . .

can't quite see a American/Soviet style split, but I could definitely see relations cooling considerably, especially if more positive feelings about African Americans in the United States stemming from the horrors of the Black Holocaust end up leading to considerably more negative feelings about German imperialism in Africa.

I think that relations would cool considerably, but they would unite to combat the common enemy of the Imperium of Japan. Though the would be in opposition in Africa and Russia they would cooperate in trying to isolate Japan from the rest of the world (with would not work that much since they essentially have an entire continent to themeslves and are pretty self sufficient) and funding rebelions in their territories (something that if it works would cripple Japan, espeiclaly if it happens successfully in Indonesia, which would take away Japan's oil supply.) I like to think in the current day it is still a cold war between America and Japan, but Japan and Germany are slowly declining, and a dentante has mostly normalized relations for the past 2 decades.

 

[Divergent54]

Here's a run-down map I just made for the year 2022

Note:

• The utterly vast majority of the 11 million Canadians in the 1940s live in east Ontario. British Columbia didn't even had a million. It'll be way too easy to cut off the core of Canada in east Ontario and annex the sparcely populated West Canada, the utterly sparce pairie provinces, and the maritimes. Any upset western Canadians can be sent or be encouraged to immigrate to east Ontario.
• The Mississippi river is going to be either American or American-friendly with a New African puppet of sorts. Economics alone dictate the US need to control the Mississippi River at ALL cost. It's just way too important of a natural passageway. New Orleans, in this case, is American in order to control the flow of goods, foodstuffs, and products in and out of the very important river basin of the grand Mississippi.

 

[AG_AG]

Here's a run-down map I just made for the year 2022

Looks Really Good! The only thing I would change is to make the Black Republics and Ontario a lighter shade of the American blue to signal that they are Satelite states of America. I also think that Alaksa would either be outright annexed, or if there was a massive community of Russians be turned into another Black Republic like state for the Russians and Natives.

 

[Lalli]

Agree about Alaska. I can't see Americans allowing Russians keep the place. It is strategically too important and there is lot of nature resources. Either USA annexes Alaska or makes that puppet state if there is so much fo Russians that it would be hard to incorporate the place.

 

[AG_AG]

I can't see Americans allowing Russians keep the place. It is strategically too important and there is lot of nature resources.

If Russia is even able to exert power over Alaska, which when you have been kick horrendously in the ass two times in 40 years, that's probably a big no. I believe that America would be worried it would fall to Japan, since after losing WW2 Russia would go full TNO and colpase into dozens of warlord states, and Japan would defiantly want the resources of Alaska for themeselves

 

[PGSBHurricane]

If the US absorbed the former Mexican states, Louisiana, Florida and Cuba (all states that went for the Radical Liberals over the Whigs/Freedomites) I think they could keep a handle on things

I recall the Radical Liberals doing well in Cuba, Chihuahua, Sonora, and Louisiana but when did they win in Florida? If anything I thought they attracted swing voters in Arkansas instead of Florida. And Arkansas was only one of two states not to vote for Featherston in 1933.

 

[AG_AG]

in Cuba

Also everyone forgot this but I think that Cuba would go the way of the Black Republic and be given independence, albeit as essentially a puppet of America like the Black Republics and Alaska

 

[AG_AG]

So wouldn't Imperial Japan be in an excellent position post SGW? Their metropol has been completely unscathed, they seemingly have almost complete domination over East and South East Asia going off of what we know about the situation over there, none of their potential major rivals (Russia, the United States, and China) are going to be in a condition to really challenge them for a long while at the very least, and (when it suits them) they're probably going to be the superpower that anti colonial partisans (or more accurately the ones rebelling against European colonialism) are going to rely on.

"The 50s and 60s are widley remebered as the Japanese Golden Age. Having complete dominion of everything east of the Indus river and Urals, including the farmlands of China, the factories of Korea, and the oil refineries of Indonesia, Japan became the world's fastest growing economy, with it overtaking Germany in 1956 and being nearly toe to toe with America for the better part of the 60's. Life was glorious for the avergae Japanese, who had great hours, amazing pay, and one of the highest level of happiness in the world. Japanese literature and art, mainly manga and in thr 60s Anime dominated the public, and Japan worked on conquering space with unamnmed missions all across the Solar Sytsem. We must not forget however that these accomplishments were built off of the back of millions of people in the Empries colonies spending their lives working in endless mines and factories at the behest of the Zabatizus, with little pay and harsh conditions, and Japan's massive military, which as the 60s closed was increasingly becoming and currupt and untenable juggernaut. These weaknesses would be taken advantage of by Japans eternal rival, America, and would be the crux of the coming storm in the 70s..."

 

[World Mapping]

So wouldn't Imperial Japan be in an excellent position post SGW? Their metropol has been completely unscathed, they seemingly have almost complete domination over East and South East Asia going off of what we know about the situation over there, none of their potential major rivals (Russia, the United States, and China) are going to be in a condition to really challenge them for a long while at the very least, and (when it suits them) they're probably going to be the superpower that anti colonial partisans (or more accurately the ones rebelling against European colonialism) are going to rely on.

In fact, their situation is perhaps not to unlike the OTL United States after World War II.

I think they'd be good initially, but they're brutally oppressing the most populous place on Earth. I think they'd collapse Yugoslavia-style toward the end of the century.

 

[AG_AG]

I think they'd be good initially, but they're brutally oppressing the most populous place on Earth. I think they'd collapse Yugoslavia-style toward the end of the century.

Well not Yugoslavia style but eventually they would be in big trouble as the colonies begin to rise up against their master, especially with Germany and America funding those revolts. I would imagine that Japan would put those down brutaly with massive armies and campaigns of fire and Superbombing, but that would backfire as it would only encourage more poeple to rebel and turn opinion at home against said wars. Overall they would do amazing for a decade or two and then colapse over the next few decades via a seires of horrific wars of independence by their colonies.

 

[Divergent54]

Updated map :

Original Notes :

• The utterly vast majority of the 11 million Canadians in the 1940s live in east Ontario. British Columbia didn't even had a million. It'll be way too easy to cut off the core of Canada in east Ontario and annex the sparcely populated West Canada, the utterly sparce pairie provinces, and the maritimes. Any upset western Canadians can be sent or be encouraged to immigrate to east Ontario.
• The Mississippi river is going to be either American or American-friendly with a New African puppet of sorts. Economics alone dictate the US need to control the Mississippi River at ALL cost. It's just way too important of a natural passageway. New Orleans, in this case, is American in order to control the flow of goods, foodstuffs, and products in and out of the very important river basin of the grand Mississippi.

Additional Notes:

• The Mormons were deported to southern Sonora as a border march between Mexico and the US. Nowadays, the Mormon Republic of New Deseret (in south Sonora) is increasingly Mestizo in adherance with Spanish being the dominant language of church service.
• The fall of Russia saw America snag Alyaska off of the remnants of Russia.
• British and French Carribean falls to the US with civil liberties for black and indigenous Carribean peoples being emphasised and preserved.

Ex-Confederate Identities:

• In order to ensure that the horrors of anti-black genocide could never come again, new identities are revived or forged out of the old South.
• In Florida, immigration from the Carribean and increasingly economic ties pushed Florida ever closer to the Carribean sphere of influence. Spanish is now spoken in nearly half of all Floridian households and most Floridians consider themselves part of the Carribean. Following reconciliations and reparations with Haiti, a new Carribean Economic Community is established with Haiti, Dominican Republic, Cuba, the Antilles Federation, and Florida being its main adherants
• The Cajun Republic of New Acadia and even American New Orleans saw a revival of their old French heritage with French being revived across numerous schools. French is now spoken in more than half of Cajun New Acadian households whilst American New Orleans is increasingly see French as a second working language in public. With encourangements from the US, the Cajun Republic is increasing its ties with Québec with economic treaties culturally blending the two countries with further exchanges. With ties of their French heritage restored, the Cajun Republic and Québec (alongside Haiti after reparations and reconciliations were made) were becoming the centres of French culture and traditions in North America.
• Texas had an independent identity going on before the CSA and was pretty easy to see their identity revived. The Allamo is mythologised in films and television shows and Texan cowboys are becoming the new identity of what it means to be a Texan.
• The Deep South (Magnolia) and Carolina saw a new reckoning on their southern identity following the genocide of their fellow black brethren. Following the harsh realities of the post-war reconstruction and the *de-nazification or *defreedomisation of the South, a new Great Awakening spurred the advent of Pentecostal and evangelical Christianity across much of the Deep South. Forged out of the ruins of the racist churches that saw black people as cursed from Ham, the new evangelical and Pentecostal Deep South saw new traditions of Christianity being made ranging from the speaking of tongues, charismatic preachers, and an emphasis on family values becoming the dominant feature of Southern culture. In similar respects to how OTL Germany saw immigration of Jews from Russia following the collapse of the Soviet Union, the Deep South of Magnolia and Carolina opened up their arms to African and later Asian immigration following the wars of African and Asian decolonisation of the late 20th century. Pentecostal Southern Christians saw this as a 'Christian duty' for their fellow Christians to come forth into the safety of a newed South.
• To reconcile with their past, many white Southerners prefer seeing the world in a colour-blind fashion. In similar respects to OTL France, census-takers and government officials remove any notion or distinction of 'race' in their forms as they see all incoming migrant Asian and African refugees from the decolonisation wars as 'Southerners' provided that they assimilated into the Christian fold of society.

 

[AG_AG]

I was thinking would there be some sort of NATO like American led entity in this world and which nations would be members?