What if TITANIC had not sunk....?

When I discovered this website I thought it would be the ideal opportunity to discuss my premise with a wider puplic, ones with an obvious interest in 'What if". Looking at the 'warm welcome' I have received, especially from Hubris Incarnate, it appears I was wrong. Perhaps I went about posting in the wrong way but I am surprised to find so many closed-minded, opinionated people in a group that is supposed to let the immagination run free. I am sorry to have offended you all.

nomadic

Nomadic, most of us aren't close-minded. Most are opinionated, but that's to be expected. But you have to remember one thing...some people's sole purpose in life is to rain on other people's parades. Bill Cameron is a prime example of that. So don't be unduly bothered by him. It's his nature. And there's others like him. Treat them as what they aspire to be...raindrops...and let them roll off your back. :D

Seeing as how you've been a member since 2007, albeit a lurker rather than an active poster, it's pretty obvious you didn't join just to sell your book.
 
Don't get discouraged Nomadic, as people here do get rather jumpy when people flaunt their products around, though that's merely a result of other authors trying to jam material down everyone's throat when they are on here to sell things. I for one think it is cool to have somebody that has actually had a book published and written. :)
 
The same thing that happens in every new thread started about the Titanic not sinking: shoddy regulations continue until some other ship sinks with as great a loss of life.

Please search before posting to avoid redundant threads.

We had a thread on the subject here a couple months ago

You know, if he resurrected an old thread, he'd be accused of "thread necromancy." If he starts a new one instead, he has people beating him up about "using the search function" and "not posting redundant threads."

Let's face it. Just about every possible POD that is in the least bit interesting has been discussed ad infinitum on this board and there are, without a shred of doubt, multiple threads on each such POD. Unless we want to limit ourselves to stupid, uninteresting PODs like "What if Hitler chose purple shirts for the SA instead of brown ones?", then there is going to be redundancy in threads...especially if we are enforcing a policy, as Ian is, against "thread necromancy."

So leave the poster be and find something else to occupy your time besides hazing him. If you don't find the new thread interesting, don't read it. :cool:
 

Blair152

Banned
The Titanic was built of brittle steel. This was the conclusion of an investigation conducted by the National Geographic Channel. The mistake
the captain of the Titanic made was to order the ship to turn hard to starboard. He should have ordered hard to port instead.
 
Nomadic, most of us aren't close-minded. Most are opinionated, but that's to be expected. But you have to remember one thing...some people's sole purpose in life is to rain on other people's parades. Bill Cameron is a prime example of that. So don't be unduly bothered by him. It's his nature. And there's others like him. Treat them as what they aspire to be...raindrops...and let them roll off your back. :D

Seeing as how you've been a member since 2007, albeit a lurker rather than an active poster, it's pretty obvious you didn't join just to sell your book.

Oh yes, been a victim of that particular thunderstorm before.

I for one think the idea is cool, being a huge fan of the Titanic as a kid. Your story sounds interesting.
And as one of the local proponents of the airship, I love the fact that you include them as well :D
 
Nomadic, where can I get your books?They look interesting.I seem to recall there was supposed to be a forthcoming book in which the ship does not sink but can't remember the title.Could you PM me info on books?
 
Let us know about his PODs, will you? The whole "No WW1" idea sounded very interesting, if borderline ASB.


Bill

Don't you know aboard the Titanic were the jewelry that finance the assassination Franz Ferdinand, a painting of Adolf Hitler that could have made him famous and a notebook with the top bolcheviks

oh wait I think that was a 90's video game
 
Don't you know aboard the Titanic were the jewelry that finance the assassination Franz Ferdinand, a painting of Adolf Hitler that could have made him famous and a notebook with the top bolcheviks

oh wait I think that was a 90's video game

I absolutely LOVE that game. :D

Titanic: Adventure Out Of Time. You're retired British Secret Service living in London in '42 and a bomb from a German air raid sends you back in time to the Titanic to see if you can fix your assignment. It's harder than you'd think to get the "worse" ending (Germany getting nukes six years before the U.S. did OTL), but it's overall fun ASB stuff.
 
The Titanic was built of brittle steel. This was the conclusion of an investigation conducted by the National Geographic Channel. The mistake
the captain of the Titanic made was to order the ship to turn hard to starboard. He should have ordered hard to port instead.

What would have happened if he had? There is still only speculation that they could have passed with the berg on the port side. Since we have no images (that I am aware of) of the berg, she might just as well popped the rivets on the port side, resulting in the same outcome.

She had a triple screw configuration with a non reversing center screw. If reverse was ordered, the center screw was simply stopped. Additionally, her single rudder was relatively small and old fashioned. not a particularly efficient design. With the central engine stopped, she would not have been able to generate additional flow over the rudder to aid in control of the ship.

She was big, fast, heavy and not state of the art. IMHO the only way she could have avoided the berg would have been to be in another location entirely.
 
Titanic and her steering...

...A hoary old debate, but based partly on misunderstandings about her size. A former bridge officer on the 'Nimitz' told me in a debate years ago that the helm orders of William Murdoch (Titanic's OOW at the time) were what he would have used. First, you ported the ship, to navigate round the berg, next you starboarded the ship to straighten her up. The second order avoided the risk of momentum carrying the stern into the berg.

As for a head-on collision at speed, given that the rivet-heads were brittle in the cold, the result would have been to crumple the bows and open seams into the second and third compartments.

William Murdoch's orders might have saved 'Titanic' had the rivets been stronger. Onsite inspection of the damage indicated that it was leaking seams - not being opened up as if by a cutter - which gradually sank the ship. Her engine-room crew apparently kept her afloat for a very long time, indicating a slow but steady inflow only just beyond the capabilities of installed pumps.


So there are five possible solutions :-
  1. William Murdoch disobeys direct orders and either slows or alters course in the icefield. This gives him more reaction time when the berg is sighted.
  2. The faulty rivets are replaced by better ones (but this needs an advance in metallurgy). Whilst the ship's side touches the berg, the damage is minor and the pumps save her.
  3. Faster pumps are installed to keep ahead of the inflow.
  4. The head of the White Star Line, Ismay, for some reason fails to make the journey, so Captain Smith makes the journey on a safer course and at a safer speed.
  5. Searchlights are installed on the bridge to give greater forward visibility in the ice field.
Hope this helps.
 
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...A hoary old debate, but based partly on misunderstandings about her size. A former bridge officer on the 'Nimitz' told me in a debate years ago that the helm orders of William Murdoch (Titanic's OOW at the time) were what he would have used. First, you ported the ship, to navigate round the berg, next you starboarded the ship to straighten her up. The second order avoided the risk of momentum carrying the stern into the berg.

As for a head-on collision at speed, given that the rivet-heads were brittle in the cold, the result would have been to crumple the bows and open seams into the second and third compartments.

William Murdoch's orders might have saved 'Titanic' had the rivets been stronger. Onsite inspection of the damage indicated that it was leaking seams - not being opened up as if by a cutter - which gradually sank the ship. Her engine-room crew apparently kept her afloat for a very long time, indicating a slow but steady inflow only just beyond the capabilities of installed pumps.


So there are five possible solutions :-
  1. William Murdoch disobeys direct orders and either slows or alters course in the icefield. This gives him more reaction time when the berg is sighted.
  2. The faulty rivets are replaced by better ones (but this needs an advance in metallurgy). Whilst the ship's side touches the berg, the damage is minor and the pumps save her.
  3. Faster pumps are installed to keep ahead of the inflow.
  4. The head of the White Star Line, Ismay, for some reason fails to make the journey, so Captain Smith makes the journey on a safer course and at a safer speed.
  5. Searchlights are installed on the bridge to give greater forward visibility in the ice field.
Hope this helps.

The first paragraph is a statement of good, but basic seamanship. Vessels have never tracked like trains and do "slide" sideways. All that mass traveling at 22 kn steered by 1 poorly designed rudder that was barely large enough to meet the standards of the day is not going to change direction or heading quickly.

The second paragraph is correct in that the lower grade iron rivets were used in the bow of the ship, additionally the plating as a whole was brittle in cold water.

Interestingly, her hull did buckle and seams were opened from the first to fifth WTC. The rivets in the central part of the hull were a higher quality steel rivet that was less susceptible to the cold and stronger than the iron rivets, but Boiler compartments 5 and 6 were severely compromised despite the better components.

does anyone know at what distance the berg was first sighted? That would be a critical factor in any evasion attempt.

I'll add a point
6. The watertight bulkheads are built at least to the Shelter deck, 2 decks higher than most of them were, and 1 deck higher than the highest. This might have prevented the WTCs from be over-topped.
 
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