What if there were no celtics in europe and only the teutonic tribes in their place

Brunaburh

Gone Fishin'
there would still be the punics and greeks and romans just no celts and more Teutons

The Germanic languages spread into Europe from Scandinavia, and they seem to have arrived very late. At contact with Rome, up to the Rhine was mostly Celtic and east of it some Celtic groups still existed. Celtic speakers hit the historical records about 500BC, so we are kind of looking at a massive area of space and time to fill with something in your ATL.

The Germanic speakers might not have been in the far north of OTL Germany by then (though they probably were). After that they spread a long way eastwards, and a bit to the west, but they were very strongly influenced by Celtic culture. Also their heartland in the Roman period was far to the East of where they are spoken today.
 

althisfan

Banned
The Germanic languages spread into Europe from Scandinavia, and they seem to have arrived very late. At contact with Rome, up to the Rhine was mostly Celtic and east of it some Celtic groups still existed. Celtic speakers hit the historical records about 500BC, so we are kind of looking at a massive area of space and time to fill with something in your ATL.

The Germanic speakers might not have been in the far north of OTL Germany by then (though they probably were). After that they spread a long way eastwards, and a bit to the west, but they were very strongly influenced by Celtic culture. Also their heartland in the Roman period was far to the East of where they are spoken today.
Scandinavia is not part of Europe? First historical record of Celts is 700 BC and they were centered at the Danube at that point. Germanic heartland was not far to the East, you're thinking of the Goths who left Gotland and went to Ukraine area, they aren't the ancestors of Germanic tribes. Germanic tribes were going to the area of the Elbe and Oder starting around 1000 BCE and were in southern Germany by 100 BCE. The Alemanni, Saxons, Franks, Thuringians were never "far to the east", you're confusing your German tribes, the urheimat of the Germans was not to the east, it was northern Germany and southern Scandinavia (Scania).
 
Is that even possible that there could be Greeks, Germans, and Romans but not Celts? And wasn't there somet heories that Italic and Celtic languages are very closely related?
 
I think that this isn't impossible, until you bring in the romans and Greeks.

A Teuton migration force that is powerful enough to completely displace the celts doesn't have a good reason for stopping.

To fully get the celts, the Iberian peninsula, north of Greece and the heartland of the Anatolian peninsula (the Galatians) would have to be taken. Stopping there just seems odd.
 

Brunaburh

Gone Fishin'
Scandinavia is not part of Europe? First historical record of Celts is 700 BC and they were centered at the Danube at that point. Germanic heartland was not far to the East, you're thinking of the Goths who left Gotland and went to Ukraine area, they aren't the ancestors of Germanic tribes. Germanic tribes were going to the area of the Elbe and Oder starting around 1000 BCE and were in southern Germany by 100 BCE. The Alemanni, Saxons, Franks, Thuringians were never "far to the east", you're confusing your German tribes, the urheimat of the Germans was not to the east, it was northern Germany and southern Scandinavia (Scania).

There is no record of anybody speaking Celtic languages until Lepontic, in Italy, in the 6th century BC. It is theorized that the Halstatt culture in the upper (or lower? Whatever, the one that's far from the sea) Danube region was related to the Celtic languages, this could be true, but tying material culture to language groups is problematic to say the least. Herodotus uses the word "keltoi" to describe the people living around the Danube, but it is far from clear that speakers of Celtic languages ever used a cognate of "Keltoi" to describe themselves, and if they did, it may actually have been an exonym borrowed from Greek. Only Caesar describes it as being used by the Gauls, and he is a notorious gobshite. The Romans and Greeks also did not assign ethnicity by language as we do, so there is no certainty Herodotus' Celts spoke Celtic, or even that the ones that the Greeks called Celts who lived around Marseille were speakers of Celtic.

Re the Germanic expansion, what I was referring to is the first expansion of Germanic, which took it into modern Poland and Belarus in the late BC's. I was using "heartland" to mean "area of strength" rather than "homeland". Germanic spread into from Scandinavia, probably originally from the main peninsula not the Jutland peninsula, given the weird substrata and the evidence of early contact with Finno-Ugric, as well as the evidence of Celtic in Jutland. This fact led me to conceptualise the process as a voyage into Europe. However, you are quite correct, Scandinavia is part of Europe.
 
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