What if the US space program was mostly based on Ascension Island instead of Cape Canaveral?

[Fuzzy Dunlop]

What if the US space program was mostly based on Ascension Island instead of Cape Canaveral?

What would be the pro's and con's of doing this?
Would it help with launching (closer to the Equator)?
Would it help with encouraging continued UK funding instead of the scrapping of the UK's space program as it was on a Crown Dependency?
Would other nations be more encouraged to join the program as it wasn't US based??

Much obliged!

 

[InvaderX]

One thing is for certain, this would complicate logistics a lot. It's going to be a lot harder to ship all the rocket parts, staff, etc. thousands of miles across the ocean than it would be to ship them somewhere in the contiguous US. Unless you locate the construction, production, control, etc. facilities on Ascension Island as well, but I'm not sure it's large enough to support something like that.

If the American's are going to use British territory to launch their rockets, it would make more sense to use Guyana. It's closer to America, it's not a small, isolated island, it has a ton of empty ocean to the east (like Florida), and it's closer to the equator than Ascension. The European Space Agency uses French Guiana as it's primary launch site for similar reasons.

 

[Vahktang]

What would be the pro's and con's of doing this?

Distance.
1500 km from the mainland, what, 10,000 miles from the U.S.
It is not owned by the U.S.
Sufficient water on the island, you would have to boat some in.
You do not help the economy of Florida with this.
Getting the personnel there.
Vulnerability to attack or sabotage.

Would it help with launching (closer to the Equator)?

yes.
But politics ran a lot of the space race, not science.

 

[e of pi]

Lack of tracking is another problem. From the Cape, there's a train of US tracking stations all the way to Africa (including Ascension!)., but the transport problems are a major issue. Stages can be moved to Florida and even to a limited extent to the Gulf and the Caribbean on non-oceangoing barges, planes, and even trains and trucks to Florida. Ascension, almost everything has to come by ship.

 

[Arkenfolm]

I don't believe there's a port large enough on Ascension Island to handle the logistics and given the island's topography it would be difficult and expensive to construct it. I wouldn't want to be the person asked to explain why Congress is spending billions on infrastructure in a British territory for the sake of science rather than spending it in the US. It would be easier to just put a station there and use it to assist with sea launches in the general vicinity of the island than actually launching from Ascension.

 

[marathag]

1500 km from the mainland, what, 10,000 miles from the U.S.

Kwajalein was in the Marshall Islands, over 2000 miles from Hawaii, and did Minuteman, Nike Zeus and Spartan launch testing

Every last bolt shipped in, as with everything else. it was a bit of coral and sand in the middle of nowhere, no fresh water

It is not owned by the U.S.

Make a deal that the Brits can't refuse

Vulnerability to attack or sabotage.

Cuba is how close to Florida again?

 

[Vahktang]

Kwajalein was in the Marshall Islands, over 2000 miles from Hawaii, and did Minuteman, Nike Zeus and Spartan launch testing

For how long?
Still being used today?
How about in the future?
Any people on any of those launches?

Make a deal that the Brits can't refuse

Threaten our ally?

Cuba is how close to Florida again?

90 miles or so.
And is closely, and more easily watched by forces in Florida and the surrounding areas than could be done 10,000 km away.
They’d have to put an additional fleet out there or something.

 

[marathag]

For how long?
Still being used today?

Last launch of a Black Brandt was in 2018, first was a Nike Apache in 1961
Future?
who can tell? its the future.
The list of launch pads that do manned launches is tiny

Threaten our ally?

Happens all the time, Recall Suez. but it's not a threat, it's a _deal_

They’d have to put an additional fleet out there or something.

Why?
It's easy to verify who gets on an island in the middle of nowhere, than for someone to sneak into Florida

 

[Vahktang]

The list of launch pads that do manned launches is tiny

Are any of that tiny list on Kwajalein.

Happens all the time, Recall Suez. but it's not a threat, it's a _deal_

The line from the movie is a threat.

Why?
It's easy to verify who gets on an island in the middle of nowhere, than for someone to sneak into Florida

Security.
And you do not have to be actually on the island to sabotage or attack it.

 

[Brady Kj]

What inspired you to choose this particular island? Were there talks of doing a lot of space launches from Ascension Island? What are the advantages of this place compared to Florida? I've never heard of the place until I saw the thread just now.

 

[Derek Pullem]

If you are locating it outside of the US then why not in the Panama Canal Zone. US Sovereign territory in perpetuity in 1960.

Guyana works for Ariane after all.

 

[Dr Dee]

Let’s face it: one of the best things about Ascension as a launch site is the name🤷🏻‍♂️

 

[Dorknought]

Make a deal that the Brits can't refuse

Just add it under the list of 'bases for Destroyers' deal claiming it was always there, honest.

 

[kmmontandon]

Kwajalein was in the Marshall Islands, over 2000 miles from Hawaii, and did Minuteman, Nike Zeus and Spartan launch testing

Now compare the total numbers.

 

[marathag]

Now compare the total numbers.

Why do miles count, anyway?
The West coast Apollo hardware traveled by ship, thru the canal, to Florida.

It's already a long distance, going out to the middle of the Atlantic doesn't change much, except shipping time

 

[marathag]

If you are locating it outside of the US then why not in the Panama Canal Zone. US Sovereign territory in perpetuity in 1960.

Guyana works for Ariane after all.

Not a bad idea either, but that's not the thread for that

 

[kmmontandon]

Why do miles count, anyway?
The West coast Apollo hardware traveled by ship, thru the canal, to Florida.

It's already a long distance, going out to the middle of the Atlantic doesn't change much, except shipping time

Now apply that to personnel. And the millions of tiny other little things it's easier to transport by land.

 

[marathag]

Now apply that to personnel. And the millions of tiny other little things it's easier to transport by land.

Easier, sure, but the USN had a lot of practice in the last war on moving people where they needed to be

 

[Not James Stockdale]

Any savings you get from lunch vehicles being able to carry marginally more payload are going to be eaten up by the costs of supporting such an enormous installation so far from the US. It is important to remember the extent to which that US space program was and is a government jobs program. There are very many bad reasons to put a launch site on ascension, and very few good ones.

 

[kmmontandon]

Easier, sure, but the USN had a lot of practice in the last war on moving people where they needed to be

... that's massively different from the huge number of skilled civilian personnel you need located nearby long-term. And their supporting communities.