What if the United States joined Germany in WW1?

Yeah but the reality was the US had too much money tied up with the Entente and little to gain from German victory. If you want to have the US angry enough to actually join Germany and engage in a long bitter struggle that brings the war right to Americas doorstep, you need more than a few mistakes by the British. Wilson (unlike the Kaiser) just can't unilaterally declare war himself, he needed congressional support and that's going to be a hard sell. You need to poison relations earlier between Britain and America somehow, they aren't going to reverse a whole lot of policy on a whim for a few ships being sunk.

Have some ignorant RN captain (There are enough of them in 1914 before war wises them up.) do this... Trent Affair - HISTORY. That will start an event chain.
 
First off the Japanese who were on the Allies side in WW1 would take the Philippines and maybe even liberate Hawaii. The Canadians had 630,000 enlisted during the war a big leap their original standing army of 3500 at the start of which only 424,000 served overseas which means at anyone time there were 10's of thousand men being trained by combat veterans to go across and fight it would not be a walk over. There had also been reports of a Germany/Irish militia in the USA a the start of the war so plans had be made for a attack from over the border and they would have time to build up defenses as the US builds up to attack it would not be the walk over assumed.

The Europe at least for Germany would not be affected apart from a moral boost at British navy keeping the German navy bottled in would also prevent the US bring them much needed supplies.

Theodore Roosevelt and Robert Taft fortified Manila Bay in 1903-1908. You should see those defenses. They withstood a WW II 5 month Japanese siege. WWI? The Japanese have not a chance in hell.

Hawaii is out of IJN sortie range. Pearl is underdeveloped as a fleet anchorage, but she got the same fortification treatment as Manila. AGAIN, not a chance in hell.
 
Theodore Roosevelt and Robert Taft fortified Manila Bay in 1903-1908. You should see those defenses. They withstood a WW II 5 month Japanese siege. WWI? The Japanese have not a chance in hell.

Hawaii is out of IJN sortie range. Pearl is underdeveloped as a fleet anchorage, but she got the same fortification treatment as Manila. AGAIN, not a chance in hell.

I'd especially love to be a member of the Japanese government who has to tell the military: "After you lost so many lives besieging Manila, the Peace Treaty we just signed hands it back over to the Americans along with the German Colonies."
 
I'd especially love to be a member of the Japanese government who has to tell the military: "After you lost so many lives besieging Manila, the Peace Treaty we just signed hands it back over to the Americans along with the German Colonies."

Or the British diplomat who has tell the Japanese government, "We appreciate the fantastic job you did capturing those islands, but we need you to give them back. Otherwise, the Americans say they will keep Canada and all our Caribbean colonies."
 
The U.S. turns off finances to the Entente, and that's pretty much the game.
Yeah come to post this, the moment war start, unless the entete push a offense destroy both german armies, is game over, not need to the US to even ship a single soldier to europe, without money and canadian agriculture, the time is set to zero in less 6 month, maybe even less
 
WWII is NOT WW I. In WW I it was the US, Mexico and Venezuela.

As for Royal Dutch Shell, there is a little problem called the Philippine Islands and the American fleet based there. Also Holland was subjected to the Entente Blockade.

Good luck with that
.

Iran does not supply enough in any quantity until 1920 despite Churchill's shenanigans in 1914. Good luck with that, too.
The "Shell" in Royal Dutch Shell was a British Company, sending its Tankers the other direction from the Philippines, and what Fleet anyway, it would be busy with the IJN in this scenario?
RDS WAS the main supplier of vehicle fuel to the BEF and the sole supplier of Aviation Grade fuel.
(The US doesn't control Mexico or Venezuela either)
And there are other sources, there's Burmah Oil as well.
 
The "Shell" in Royal Dutch Shell was a British Company, sending its Tankers the other direction from the Philippines, and what Fleet anyway, it would be busy with the IJN in this scenario?
RDS WAS the main supplier of vehicle fuel to the BEF and the sole supplier of Aviation Grade fuel.
(The US doesn't control Mexico or Venezuela either)
And there are other sources, there's Burmah Oil as well.
We don't discount that...is now High Atlantic is hostile waters and Oil can't remplace food.... Still as say before, the entente is on reverse, they need to break germany before is too late...
 
The "Shell" in Royal Dutch Shell was a British Company, sending its Tankers the other direction from the Philippines, and what Fleet anyway, it would be busy with the IJN in this scenario?

RDS WAS the main supplier of vehicle fuel to the BEF and the sole supplier of Aviation Grade fuel.

(The US doesn't control Mexico or Venezuela either)

And there are other sources, there's Burmah Oil as well.

Does not control Mexico and Venezuela? AYK?

The British Grand Fleet used mostly coal and oil combos like the HSF did. So whatever oil is needed?

Not that much.

Burma Oil. You do know that Standard Oil held many of those fields (1901)?

And... This fleet.

Battleship_Division_Nine_WWI.jpg


After Beatty has stuffed it (the RN) at the Grand Banks after Admiral Fletcher introduces him to Misters Bliss Leavitt Mark 8 and 9 and how torpedoes are supposed to be used.

:cool:
 
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So your scenario relies on it being in two places at once at the same time, have you been reading Harry Harrison?

panama-canal.jpg


It does not have to be in two places at the same time. It just has to be in two places which the RN cannot be since if it tries, it dies. Harry Harrison is also a poor writer.
 
panama-canal.jpg


It does not have to be in two places at the same time. It just has to be in two places which the RN cannot be since if it tries, it dies. Harry Harrison is also a poor writer.
Yes but you are still relying on the USN facing two other navies, and hoping that it can deal with them one at a time. You can absolutely guarantee they are not just going to sit around and do nothing. As has been pointed out the Royal Navy IS big enough to be in two places at once, especially since it has the IJN, which means the USN does have to be it two places at once. This 1916 its not large enough to face the 40% the RN can spare, and still maintain superiority over the High Seas Fleet, and the entire Japanese Navy. If it concentrates on one at a time the other runs rampant. You can't stage out of the Philippines if its already under blockade, and the USN cannot prevent this and simultaneously deter the Royal Navy in the Atlantic.
(And yes I have realised that your never going to accept this, but the point has to be made)

Edit: Just to be absolutely clear, by the end of OTL 1916 the USN has 14 Dreadnoughts and the High Seas Fleet has 22. The Royal Navy has 41! It outnumbers both of them combined, it literally can be in two places at the same time. (The IJN has 7 in commission)
 
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Yes but you are still relying on the USN facing two other navies, and hoping that it can deal with them one at a time. You can absolutely guarantee they are not just going to sit around and do nothing. As has been pointed out the Royal Navy IS big enough to be in two places at once, especially since it has the IJN, which means the USN does have to be it two places at once. This 1916 its not large enough to face the 40% the RN can spare, and still maintain superiority over the High Seas Fleet, and the entire Japanese Navy. If it concentrates on one at a time the other runs rampant. You can't stage out of the Philippines if its already under blockade, and the USN cannot prevent this and simultaneously deter the Royal Navy in the Atlantic.
(And yes I have realised that your never going to accept this, but the point has to be made)

Edit: Just to be absolutely clear, by the end of OTL 1916 the USN has 14 Dreadnoughts and the High Seas Fleet has 22. The Royal Navy has 41! It outnumbers both of them combined, it literally can be in two places at the same time. (The IJN has 7 in commission)
The Thing is that not matter global strategy, once canada is loss and all the resoruce from USA are denied....
 

CalBear

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It is the year 1914. World War 1 has begun after the Assasination of Archduke Franz Ferdinand. From 1914 - 1916 everything goes as normal as in our timeline. But when 1917 arrived, America started noticing that the British blockade was starving the German populace. Woodrow Wilson starts enforcing "Freedom of the Seas". This was ignored by the British.

Wilson authorizes USN ships to start escorting supply ships that has supplies for Germany. One of the US ships, USS Fanning (I think), is sunk while escorting ships. Anti British sentiments starts in America. With all this, and the memory of the Lusitania's meat shields, joins Germany in 1917.
Not a doable thing. Additionally, as is always the case, you need to follow the money. Which countries did more business with the U.S., especially which countries imported more U.S. goods?

in 1913 the U.S. exported goods worth $377M to the Central Power and imported $225M of goods. The U.S. exported $1,320M of goods to the Entente powers in 1913 and imported $737M of products. (all figures in 1913 USD). This roughly 3.5:1 ratio of trade tilted to the Entente was a constant from at least 1908 (which is where the referenced data source begins). Money talks, everyone else take a scooter.

https://www.jstor.org/stable/207691?seq=4#metadata_info_tab_contents

Telling the Entente to take their money and shove it would have been an economic disaster, even before considering the costs related to FIGHTING through the Royal Navy, in the North Sea.

Isn't going to happen.
 
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Have some ignorant RN captain (There are enough of them in 1914 before war wises them up.) do this... Trent Affair - HISTORY. That will start an event chain.

Yeah, you're gonna need to make a stronger argument than that. The Trent Affair happened under very different circumstances and cooler heads prevailed here too. The British, getting ready to fight a major land war in Europe, aren't going to go to war with the USA over some missing diplomats nor is the USA, who had friendly relations and significant economic ties with the British Empire going to start a war over the botched actions of a RN captain.

There wouldn't be any event chain. Wars aren't declared lightly, especially between two Great Powers who are on good terms AND ESPECIALLY when one is already fighting three other Great powers. You completely ignore the politics and interests of the players at the time. Neither of them have any desire to fight each other, the US didn't want to fight anybody, you need to change that.

The U.S. turns off finances to the Entente, and that's pretty much the game.

I agree, this is the more likely result of the US/British botching relations after the war has begun, at worst. They cut the financing and put the squeeze on the Entente to end the war.
 
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