Octavian Marius
Banned
Im not sure about the POD, maybe Victoria dies but what if they stayed in a personal union.
I have thought about this. Maybe Salic Law is repealed or Victoria was a boy.Im not sure about the POD, maybe Victoria dies but what if they stayed in a personal union.
I'm assuming the OP is asking about the continuation of the personal union rather than some colonisation project - the case of Ireland proves both how massively expensive such a thing would be, and how easily it would be reversed at the merest hint of German nationalism.Problem is: Hanover speaks German, uses the German trade-guild system of apprenticeships and is in many other aspects culturally and politically 'German' rather then British. If the Prussians hadn't annexed it at the start of their unification campaign, it would have almost certainly joined the German union voluntarily (or after some uprisings in the streets by pan-German sympathizers) by the time the united German state was formed. For England to keep Hanover as part of their realm, it had to be more British then German. So we might need a POD in the 1700's that massively would lure Hanover-English to live on the Isles and replace them with British or at least English-speaking, English-leaning subjects in the city-state.
I have no doubt Great-Britain (and thus Hanover) stays out of the German wars of unification. Prussia (or Austria for that matter) would not attack Hannover out of fear Briatin gets involved. Personaly I think Luxemburg is the best example to look at. It was in personal union with the Netherlands and wasn't involved in the unification wars. So my guess would be that Hanover turns into some kind of big Luxemburg. Close to Germany, but not part of it. This is of course assuming unification is roughly similar to OTL. Hanover was pretty big, so I can imagine that it would cause several butterflies. Hannover not getting annexed by Prussia alone would be a big one, since it connected the eastern parts of Prussia to the western parts, although I guess Hesse Nassau did the same.The relationship between the Netherlands, Luxembourg and the German Confederation shows that the personal union was essentially a practical thing to do, but only until the German Empire. I don't know enough about German history to know how the process of Unification would take place with another Great Power having an interest on 'rightfully' German territory, but I think it's pretty certain that Britain would not go to war over Hannover. In fact, Westminster essentially wanted rid of it for the entire 18th century.
The thing with the Luxembourg comparison is that the only reason it was kept out of the Deutsches Reich was because the Dutch handed over an equal amount of territory in Limburg to make up for it. If Britain, for whatever reason, wants Hannover to be kept out of Prussian hands, where's this quid pro quo going to come from? Is Britain going to hand over a territory in Africa just to keep hold of sodding Hannover? Not likely. And especially in a case where, presumably, the people of Hannover are making it very clear through civil unrest and pamphlets and things that they are very sure that they want to be part of Germany.I have no doubt Great-Britain (and thus Hanover) stays out of the German wars of unification. Prussia (or Austria for that matter) would not attack Hannover out of fear Briatin gets involved. Personaly I think Luxemburg is the best example to look at. It was in personal union with the Netherlands and wasn't involved in the unification wars. So my guess would be that Hanover turns into some kind of big Luxemburg. Close to Germany, but not part of it. This is of course assuming unification is roughly similar to OTL. Hanover was pretty big, so I can imagine that it would cause several butterflies. Hannover not getting annexed by Prussia alone would be a big one, since it connected the eastern parts of Prussia to the western parts, although I guess Hesse Nassau did the same.
Incorrect. Or at best completely irrelevant. In 1815 Luxemburg became a country in personal union with the Netherlands, but became part of the German confederation, since Prussia wanted it too and this was the compromise. After the Belgian revolt Luxemburg was split and half of it went to Belgium, the rest remained in personal union with the Netherlands. As a compensation for the loss of half of Luxemburg, the Dutch part of Limburg became a member of the German confederation (although not all of it). This had nothing to do with German unification or anything I was talking about.The thing with the Luxembourg comparison is that the only reason it was kept out of the Deutsches Reich was because the Dutch handed over an equal amount of territory in Limburg to make up for it.
It proves that the Prussians aren't going to sit idly by and allow a member of the German Confederation to disengage with the Unification project. Of the states which did wish to avoid this, one was replaced by a vaguely equal amount of territory and the others were defeated in a War. So yeah, it is relevant, in that Prussia obviously aren't going to subsist on a single major North Sea port without either going to war with Britain (lol) or coming to a deal - i.e. either Hannover (and Oldenburg and Bremen) remains independent and the Prussians get something in return, or Britain just says "Look, mate, you're welcome to the bloody place, to be honest."Incorrect. Or at best completely irrelevant. In 1815 Luxemburg became a country in personal union with the Netherlands, but became part of the German confederation, since Prussia wanted it too and this was the compromise. After the Belgian revolt Luxemburg was split and half of it went to Belgium, the rest remained in personal union with the Netherlands. As a compensation for the loss of half of Luxemburg, the Dutch part of Limburg became a member of the German confederation (although not all of it). This had nothing to do with German unification or anything I was talking about.
What I was talking about was that Luxemburg during the unification wars remained neutral and when unification was finished remained outside of Germany, even though it had been part of the German confederation. This had nothing to do with the split of Luxemburg almost 50 years earlier. The same could happen with Hannover. Britain stays out of the Schleswig wars, the Austro-Prussian war and the Franco-Prussian war*. Prussia does not wish to offend Britain, so does not attack Hanover. In the end Germany forms and, just like Luxemburg, Hanover stays out of it, for much the same reasons. Britain does not have to give up anything, since giving up anything has nothing to do with it.
*assuming they aren't butterflied away, of course
No, you are confusing two completely seperate events. The aftermath of the Belgian revolt had nothing to do with the German unification. The one thing we should learn from German unification Luxemburg not being part of it, Austria not heavily punished after the Austrian-{russian war is that Prussia did not want to make enemies if they could avoid it. And they can avoid making the most powerful nation their enemy by simply ignoring hanover, so they will.It proves that the Prussians aren't going to sit idly by and allow a member of the German Confederation to disengage with the Unification project. Of the states which did wish to avoid this, one was replaced by a vaguely equal amount of territory and the others were defeated in a War. So yeah, it is relevant, in that Prussia obviously aren't going to subsist on a single major North Sea port without either going to war with Britain (lol) or coming to a deal - i.e. either Hannover (and Oldenburg and Bremen) remains independent and the Prussians get something in return, or Britain just says "Look, mate, you're welcome to the bloody place, to be honest."
Yes it did. Prussia did not want the Deutscher Bund to lose out. Bye.The aftermath of the Belgian revolt had nothing to do with the German unification.
Yes it did. Prussia did not want the Deutscher Bund to lose out.
But the Britons do not have Hanover, it is ruling itself, is it not? Besides, this was one of the main parts of the Platt/Low Saxon speaking area, so it might not be that far off in that age for someone influential to do as Ivar Aasen (creator of Nynorsk in Norway) and initiate a new nationality.Just look on a map of modern Germany and take off Lower Saxony (roughly Hanover). It looks bizarre? It is bizarre. If the Britons don't return Hanover to Germany, the Germans in Hanover will rise and anschluss themselves.
Besides, this was one of the main parts of the Platt/Low Saxon speaking area, so it might not be that far off in that age for someone influential to do as Ivar Aasen (creator of Nynorsk in Norway) and initiate a new nationality.
Hmm if Prussia invaded Habover and that lead to a UK backing of Austria maybe we could see a disunited German