What if the U.S invaded the Azores islands?

While making a video about Portugal I ended up coming across War Plan Grey which was created by the U.S military in 1941 to invade the Azores islands that are under Portuguese control. This was to prevent them from falling into the hands of Nazi Germany but the plans were created before the U.S had entered the war. I haven't been able to find a whole lot of information about this in my research but what you think would happen if the U.S invaded the islands.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/War_Plan_Gray
 
Depends on exactly when the entry occurs. Previous the British had been conducting discussions with the Portuguse government concerning Brit air & naval bases in the Azores, and plans were either Spain of Germany to invade Portugal. Let s imagine for a moment several scenarios

1. Spain is paid by German to invade Portugal to seize control of the Wolfram or tungsten ore. Backstory: Britain had been outbiding Germany for the ore. This was horriblly expensive for Britain, but it was impossible for Germany. The Portuguese & Spanish demanded cash or equivalent from Germany which was in very short supply. & it kept the Portuguse happy & friendly to Britain & the US.

2. Portugal & the US fear a Axis invasion & the Azores are occupied in a agreement similar to that allowing the US occupation of Iceland in 1941.

3. A coup by a pro Axis faction removes Salazars government. Fearing Axis air and naval units based in the Azores the US makes a premeptive invasion.

Any of these three could result in Hitler deciding to declare war on the US. He had toyed with the idea several times in 1941, but never followed through. Any of these three might tip the scale.

The earlier any occur the less well prepared the US is for such a operation. When the US mobilization started in latter 1940 the only ready amphibious force for the Atlantic fleet was a combined arms brigade of Marines and the ability to form a second such group. The Army had already started working to develop a capability for landing operations, but 'Amphibious Forces Atlantic Fleet' was a paper capability through much of 1941. By midyear the equivalent of two Marine brigades and a nominal division HQ existed, and a Army division had learned how to get on & off the boats and pack its equipment in waterproofing. Other miscl Army and Marine units were training for amphib ops, but were not well along yet.

Of course the Portuguese Army had only a few battalions on the Azores, so its not a challenging fight.
 
The US and British started using the Azores in October 1943 - http://www.skydozer.com/Azores-Crossroads.html.

I don't think this is that hard. Just have a few more bad incidents in the Atlantic in 1940 and 1941 like Bismark and Prinz Eugen slip past Holland's task force and break out into the Atlantic and do some real damage before they get rolled up. Maybe even have some German agents show up on the Azores and get captured furthering paranoia.

Frankly, I'm kind of surprised this didn't happen.
 
I think an administrative 'invasion' under the guns of some Cruisers and a Battleship or 2 should serve - no need for chaps running across open beaches dodging MG fire with specialist gear and training

As for effectiveness - a refueling base for DDs and Corvettes is going to be a boon and not sure if an airstrip existed (if not operate Amphibs till one is) but having 4 engined MRAPs make the black gap much smaller
 

TFSmith121

Banned
While making a video about Portugal I ended up coming across War Plan Grey which was created by the U.S military in 1941 to invade the Azores islands that are under Portuguese control. This was to prevent them from falling into the hands of Nazi Germany but the plans were created before the U.S had entered the war. I haven't been able to find a whole lot of information about this in my research but what you think would happen if the U.S invaded the islands.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/War_Plan_Gray


The US (GREY) and the British (ALACRITY) plans were created as a response to what would have amounted to an Axis decision to make the Mediterranean Theater the focus of their war effort after France fell in 1940, so the obvious point is what the Axis would be doing in southern France and Corsica, Iberia, French North Africa, the Central Mediterranean/ Malta, the Balkans, Anatolia, the Levant, and Libya-Egypt...

Given the troop and shipping and logistics requirements for a true Mediterranean Strategy, one would presume the British and/or Americans would have no difficulty with the Portuguese (who presumably would invite them in if the Spanish and Germans invaded Portugal proper), and even the Spanish - the likely next target in PILGRIM - would not have the sea power to defend the Canaries against the Anglo-Americans.

Best,
 
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The intro says it clearly enough: The US and British plans had as a prequisite that Nazi Germany, or any other Nazi or axis-aligned state made the first move before they would sweep in as either protectors or liberators, even it that meant that they would have to engineer the original uprising of the population themselves. So militarily, the answer would depend on whether the Germans were already on the islands and how much time they had to dig in or how much time they would have to dig in before the Germans arrive / how much time they would need to dig in before the Germans decide that an invasion isn't worth the losses.

Historical events showed quite clearly that the preferred path of the allies was to just ensure the islands neutrality through diplomatic means and keep military action only as a threat or a last resort, even if an allied Azores could be a valuable asset in the war of the Atlantic, it would not be valuable enough as to risk the neutrality of Portugal and Spain.

Given the size and remoteness of the islands, an allied 'safekeeping' force would be symbolic at most while an axis force would necessarily be just as small and if the Allies can strike before Germany can move in sufficient troops can be dislodged by just diverting any troop transport going to or from Africa.

For the US, the main challenge would be how the public would react to Roosefelt sending the troops to war before Pearl harbor.
 
The intro says it clearly enough: The US and British plans had as a prequisite that Nazi Germany, or any other Nazi or axis-aligned state made the first move before they would sweep in as either protectors or liberators, even it that meant that they would have to engineer the original uprising of the population themselves. So militarily, the answer would depend on whether the Germans were already on the islands and how much time they had to dig in or how much time they would have to dig in before the Germans arrive / how much time they would need to dig in before the Germans decide that an invasion isn't worth the losses.

Historical events showed quite clearly that the preferred path of the allies was to just ensure the islands neutrality through diplomatic means and keep military action only as a threat or a last resort, even if an allied Azores could be a valuable asset in the war of the Atlantic, it would not be valuable enough as to risk the neutrality of Portugal and Spain.

Given the size and remoteness of the islands, an allied 'safekeeping' force would be symbolic at most while an axis force would necessarily be just as small and if the Allies can strike before Germany can move in sufficient troops can be dislodged by just diverting any troop transport going to or from Africa.

For the US, the main challenge would be how the public would react to Roosefelt sending the troops to war before Pearl harbor.

Perhaps sell it like the occupation of Iceland?
 
Perhaps sell it like the occupation of Iceland?

And use Marines, not Army troops. Historically President's can use Marines by executive fiat who are always volunteers and professionals in ways that they cannot use Army soldiers. Obviously that line has been blurred a bit in recent decades now that the US has a large professional army but in 1941 that distinction was important. That's why Marines were initially sent to Iceland.
 
Historically President's can use Marines by executive fiat who are always volunteers and professionals in ways that they cannot use Army soldiers. ... That's why Marines were initially sent to Iceland.

The political question at the time was the promise not to use the National Guard men and draftees mobilized in the Autum of 1940 overseas. That was still a consideration in the spring of 1941 when the decision to send a occupation force to Iceland. Technical considerations were: The Iceland occupation was to also serve as a forward naval base, to support US participation in the Battle of the Atlantic, the Marines writ included "Seizing and defending forward naval bases." That led to the Marines having a pool of ready units organized and trained for that mission. It was not much trouble to put together a Marine Expeditionary combined arms brigade for the occupation since these brigades had existed since the mid 1920s.

Be interesting to see the original docs for WP Gray
 
"what if" Germany struck some accord with Vichy regime and based u-boats and aircraft in Morocco? my understanding is that in case of Spain joining Axis and loss of Gibraltar the British planned to occupy Canary Islands and continue operations?

wonder if Allies would have to look seriously at occupying Azores to counter?
 
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wonder if Allies would have to look seriously at occupying Azores to counter?

Yes. that seems to have been the thinking behind planning Op Alacrity & WP Gray.

I doubt it would have stopped there. The original Gymnast Op was conceived as a counter to Axis pressure to use Vichy territory. ie: in 1941 some mid level German leaders inquired about basing a group of maritime recon bombers in Morroco. That news eventually made its way to British ears. the French politely ignored the question, but in Tunisia they were forced to accept Axis supplies landed in Tunis & carried south to Tripoli. Italian soldiers followed to monitor security of the shipments. Geschwader of Condors based at Casablanca was not too farfetched to Brit eyes in early 1942.
 

Driftless

Donor
FWIW, there was a significant population of Portugese immigrants in the New England area in that era, many of whom were either fluent or at least passable with the mother tongue. That could have been a useful skill.
 

TFSmith121

Banned
And use Marines, not Army troops. Historically President's can use Marines by executive fiat who are always volunteers and professionals in ways that they cannot use Army soldiers. Obviously that line has been blurred a bit in recent decades now that the US has a large professional army but in 1941 that distinction was important. That's why Marines were initially sent to Iceland.

True, but it was more because of the initial 1-year-term of service for the army units filled by the 1940 mobilization; by the autumn of 1941, the 1st Marine Brigade (built around the 6th Marines, and in Iceland from July, 1941) was being supplemented by the 5th Infantry Division, which had a complete RCT (10th) in Iceland in September, 1941, with the entire division in place by the spring of 1942; in addition, the air defense force (USAAF 33rd Pursuit Squadron) and the naval aviation element (VP-73 and VP-74, with PBYs and PBMs) were all Iceland in the short of war period.

Best,
 
The original Gymnast Op was conceived as a counter to Axis pressure to use Vichy territory. ie: in 1941 some mid level German leaders inquired about basing a group of maritime recon bombers in Morroco. That news eventually made its way to British ears. the French politely ignored the question ... Geschwader of Condors based at Casablanca was not too farfetched to Brit eyes in early 1942.

view the use of airbase in Syria to supply Iraqi rebellion as trial of expanded collaboration (a fiasco that cost Vichy regime Syria-Lebanon) but it would have been more logical to use bases in Morocco for their ongoing Atlantic operations, so the LW arrives circa May 1941.

Allied side operating from Azores.

my next question would be whether Allied side push for earlier version of Operation Torch? or bases in Morocco not that much of advantage to Axis?
 
Hmm a Portuguese battalion hastily shaken out of the four million man army of 1942-42?

My understanding is the Portuguese regularly commuted back and forth. Sort of like folks in the US bounce back and forth between the south western states and the north east or mid west.
 
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