What if the Spanish Royalty had fled to New Spain in the Napoleonic Wars?

Are you sure the royal would have liked Mexico City.

Mexico City

"The average annual temperature varies from 12 to 16 °C (53 to 60 °F) depending on the altitude of the borough. Lowest temperatures, usually registered during January and February may reach -2 to -5 °C (28 to 23 °F), usually accompanied by snow showers on the southern regions of Ajusco, and the maximum temperatures of late spring and summer may reach up to 32 °C (90 °F).
Mexico altitude is 7200 feet .
Located in a large valley in the high plateau of central Mexico, and sitting at an altitude of 2240m, Mexico City is one of the highest capitals on earth.At the altitude of Mexico City and above, visitors may take a few days to adjust to the lower atmospheric pressure.
Also, Mexico City was prone to flooding.

San Juan's climate is classified as tropical marine. San Juan enjoys an average temperature of 82 °F (28 °C) during the year, although 90 °F (32 °C) or higher temperatures are often felt during the summer, especially if the winds come from the south. In the winter, temperatures can drop to the 60s, though the average winter low is 71 °F (22 °C). Rainfall is well-distributed all year, but the months of February, March and April are the driest.
Since its next to the Atlantic Ocean there is always a cool breeze.
Persistent 19-knot (35 km/h) trade winds move from east to west across the island year round. In lighter wind regimes, sea breeze and land breeze circulations dominate.
And no altitude problems. But yes Hurricanes. But waiting for a storm to end while inside the island Capitals forifications that was not a problem.

Question. New Spain was already split into Capitancy Generals or Kingdoms. So would not there be more than four kingdoms.

Captaincy General (sp. Capitanía General) a division of a viceroyalty in colonial Spanish America, established in areas under risk of foreign invasion or Indian attack and governed by a Captain General, basically a militar authority.

Although under the nominal jurisdiction of their viceroys, captains general were practically viceroys, because of their special military functions and the considerable distance of their captaincies from the viceroyal capital, having a direct relationship with the king and the Council of the Indies, in Madrid.

Captaincies General and creation year:

* Santo Domingo (1540)
* Guatemala (1560)
* New Granada (1563), which became a viceroyalty in 1717.
* Philippines (1593)
*Yucatan (1617)
* Cuba (1764) See Below
* Venezuela (1777)
* Chile (1778).

The Portuguese also used this system in their colonies. In Brazil, the recipient of a captaincy was called a donatário.

Chile, Venezuela and New Granada were not part of New Spain.

Cuba -The restructuring of the Captaincy General in 1764 was the first example of the Bourbon Reforms in America. In Cuba the changes included adding the provinces of Florida and Louisiana and granting more autonomy for these provinces.
The Louisiana Territory had become Spains again in 1763.
 
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I have another Suggestion for a Spanish-American Capital: Nueva Orleans - New Orleans
(It was Spanish till October 1st 1800 in OTL)
It had about 10.000 inhabitants at that moment, and a harbour.
I don't think they would move to an inland city like MexicoCity. (Inhabitants in 1800 accourding to wikipedia 168.00)
The place was pretty small and marginal (let's be honest here, it was a border town and trade point in the middle of a swamp), in addition to being well away from a lot of Spanish America.

Okay so we would likely see Spanish America being split into four Kingdom/Empires, New Spain, New Granada, Peru and Río de la Plata. Would they be united under one Monarch in Mexico City, or would they get separate monarchs?
May get seperate cortes (akin to the old Aragon/Castile thing) due to communication/distance problems, but unless the King moves back to Madrid and parcels them out I think they will keep the same Monarch.

HTG
 
Why not Veracruz for the royal court? It is on the Gulf and IIRC is well fortified by now.

I have in the last few years come to the conclusion that a good way to get a stronger Mexico is to delay her independence.
 
Okay so we would likely see Spanish America being split into four Kingdom/Empires, New Spain, New Granada, Peru and Río de la Plata. Would they be united under one Monarch in Mexico City, or would they get separate monarchs?

It would definitely be one monarch at the beginning. However if we assume the situation would be something similar to OTLs Brazil there would be a problem once the monarchy splits with one king in Mexico City and one in Madrid. To which King would each ex-viceroyalty declare its allegiance. New Spain would definitely stick with the one in Mexico City but Peru and Rio de la Plata would probably stay loyal to the Spanish monarchy and Nueva Granada would probably split.

There is also the possibility of new monarchies appearing in the new Kingdoms as the split away from Spain.

Over all this is a scenario that has always fascinated me, as it includes thousands of butterflies on how the Americas would work in the long run with the possibility of a very strong very rich Novohispanic Empire.
 
Alright and one thing the court would be stationed in Mexico City, the climate here is not as bad as you people are making it sound.
It was the largest city in the Empire and it centrally located. However in the long run in order to keep all the kingdoms together an new capital could be built somewhere else. In this case I think Panama would be a very good idea.
 
Over all this is a scenario that has always fascinated me, as it includes thousands of butterflies on how the Americas would work in the long run with the possibility of a very strong very rich Novohispanic Empire.

If we assume that at some point US expansionism demands a chunk of their territory, how would a US - Nueva Hispana War go?

I'd suggest it'd be much longer and inconclusive. While the US may seize territory, it could not hold it without much of NH clamoring for it to be retaken.

Or conversely, US funding and even arming local elites to break off away from the empire and form their own nations.
 
It would definitely be one monarch at the beginning. However if we assume the situation would be something similar to OTLs Brazil there would be a problem once the monarchy splits with one king in Mexico City and one in Madrid. To which King would each ex-viceroyalty declare its allegiance. New Spain would definitely stick with the one in Mexico City but Peru and Rio de la Plata would probably stay loyal to the Spanish monarchy and Nueva Granada would probably split.

There is also the possibility of new monarchies appearing in the new Kingdoms as the split away from Spain.

Over all this is a scenario that has always fascinated me, as it includes thousands of butterflies on how the Americas would work in the long run with the possibility of a very strong very rich Novohispanic Empire.

I think in the end, it would probably not get very developed, as IOTL, because both of the socio-economic structure of the country and the bourbons themselves. I could see OTL's Mexican-American War and Spanish-American War all in one, with the USA gaining Cuba and Puerto Rico (if it wants them in this timeline) much earlier.
 
Why not Veracruz for the royal court? It is on the Gulf and IIRC is well fortified by now.


Tom,

Disease, primarily yellow fever.

During the 19th Century invasion of Mexico by the US and Europeans, Veracruz was seized as a working port during the dry season with the hopes that the newly landed troops would then march into the interior uplands before the yellow fever season began.

I have in the last few years come to the conclusion that a good way to get a stronger Mexico is to delay her independence.

Agreed. A period of actual local rule within the Spanish empire would help to.


Bill
 

oberdada

Gone Fishin'
The place was pretty small and marginal (let's be honest here, it was a border town and trade point in the middle of a swamp), in addition to being well away from a lot of Spanish America.

I thought New Orleans was a lot bigger untill I looked it up.
I guess I fell so much in love with the idea of butterflying the Louisina purchase away, tying the US to the Area East of the Missisippi.
 
In this thread, would the Viceroyalty of New Spain remain together?
It seems plausible for me that, apart from the core of the viceroyalty and Provincias internas, the Capitancy of Guatemala would remain. Maybe Cuba. Not so the Philippines.
 
In this thread, would the Viceroyalty of New Spain remain together?
It seems plausible for me that, apart from the core of the viceroyalty and Provincias internas, the Capitancy of Guatemala would remain. Maybe Cuba. Not so the Philippines.

Dutch will steal the philippines from new spain or new spain give everything it has on asia to japan,which is it's ally making a larger japanese empire....
 
Dutch will steal the philippines from new spain or new spain give everything it has on asia to japan,which is it's ally making a larger japanese empire....
ah why wouldn't they just give them back to Spain itself. Cuba and Puerto Rico would probably be retained by Spain as well.
 
Simple,Philippines was a headache to spain and also the spanish did sell their remaining east territories to Germans

Such a headache they kept it for like three hundred years straight.

And they only sold the islands due to America winning the Spanish-American war in the first place.
 
Simple,Philippines was a headache to spain and also the spanish did sell their remaining east territories to Germans

Eventually yes but here if you have a sister monarchy heading an Empire of Nueva Espana ( Probably still becoming the Empire of Mexico at some point but thats beside the point and just semantics) Spain necessarily has an ally in the Pacific basin perhaps that it can count on if for instance NE has managed to retain the northern terr. Again probable because Spain would probably be aiding NE/Mexico in any alternate drive for California and the northern Cession territories by the US.
 
Such a headache they kept it for like three hundred years straight.

And they only sold the islands due to America winning the Spanish-American war in the first place.

They kept it because of trade/access with China but if spain purchases a part of china such as macao they will abandon the philippines like what portuguese did to it's malaysia/indonesian colonies when they had macao,perhaps only retaining zamboanga like portuguese did in keeping east timor....

Eventually yes but here if you have a sister monarchy heading an Empire of Nueva Espana ( Probably still becoming the Empire of Mexico at some point but thats beside the point and just semantics) Spain necessarily has an ally in the Pacific basin perhaps that it can count on if for instance NE has managed to retain the northern terr. Again probable because Spain would probably be aiding NE/Mexico in any alternate drive for California and the northern Cession territories by the US.

Yes and they can easily buy territories from china like hongkong,spain can buy hongkong or shanghai if they like because it is more accessible to china or if they force to open japan instead of americans there is Kuroshio currents that makes the trade easy.
 
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