What if the Spanish expanded more (or lost territories) in the Western Pacific?

raharris1973

Gone Fishin'
Donor
Monthly Donor
sounds interesting, link please!

Braginsky

One of my TLs had Spain lose territories to Russia.

When you have a chance, send the link of the thread.

Kasumigenx


think a rump surviving Selurong/Ma-I

Is that a synonym for Brunei?

Grey Wolf -

If they were expelled from Manila they would either use a base further South in the Philippines, or if they lost the Philippines altogether, I would see some Indonesian state being subjugated, rather than virgin colonies in Australia or New Guinea which don't make strategic sense.

I agree, if there is a good candidate for it. Where were you thinking? One suggestion I had heard was the Molluccas. Would Spain have any hesitancy about going too far to the west in the Indies or Malaya and penetrating into tthe zone of predominant Portuguese influence?
 
I agree, if there is a good candidate for it. Where were you thinking? One suggestion I had heard was the Molluccas. Would Spain have any hesitancy about going too far to the west in the Indies or Malaya and penetrating into tthe zone of predominant Portuguese influence?

The Spanish set up a fort on Tindore in 1603, so it's not a bad idea.
 
I think the Chinese certainly wouldn't invade Spainish Manila because the Chinese really needed Spanish silver. The Spanish treated the Chinese merchants in Manila like shit on multiple occasions but the Chinese kept on coming back. I don't know about about Japan, but the Chinese don't really want to mess with their extremely important trade partner.
 
Braginsky



When you have a chance, send the link of the thread.

Kasumigenx




Is that a synonym for Brunei?

Grey Wolf -



I agree, if there is a good candidate for it. Where were you thinking? One suggestion I had heard was the Molluccas. Would Spain have any hesitancy about going too far to the west in the Indies or Malaya and penetrating into tthe zone of predominant Portuguese influence?

This is the one, aptly named Ivangorod Prosperous: https://www.alternatehistory.com/discussion/showthread.php?t=216737
 

raharris1973

Gone Fishin'
Donor
Monthly Donor
There's another unexplored expansionist direction - Indochina

In listing the prospects earlier, I/we neglected a hypothetical Spanish colonization in Indochina.

In the early years of the Philippine colony, much of southern Vietnam wasn't Vietnamese yet, it was controlled by Chams and Khmers. Perhaps the contested situation gives the Spanish an in to establish a colonial presence around Saigon and the Mekong delta, or in Cambodia?

The Chams and Khmers were weak, and possibly susceptible to an earlier european conquest in the 1500s, 1600s or 1700s. Or they could be maneuvered into a protectorate. As protector or occupier of any of their lands, recurring conflict with the Viet is very likely.

At the same time, the relative success of Catholic proselytization in Vietnam offers up other prospects for Spain. They might be allied closely with a southern Nguyen Viet dynasty relatively more tolerant than OTL and in Spain's view receptive to Christianity, and the Spanish might be eager to support Nguyen expansion against largely Muslim Chams and Buddhist Khmers for sectarian reasons as well as anticipated fringe benefits in terms of trade.

Note that in the OTL 19th century, Spain was involved in Vietnamese ecclesiastical affairs and they joined as partners of the French in mid-nineteenth century expeditions to to Vietnam, with religious persecution used as a pretext.
 
How much force can Spain put into southern Vietnam compared to the locals (not just the states in question but their neighbors)?

Most of Spain's military might is busy in Europe, after all.
 
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