What if the Spanish colonized North America like Britain did, in the area of the 13 colonies. Would there be a British Mexico?
Maybe they could form a penal colony to send Flemish/Dutch/Walloon heretics and other "criminals" from across the empireWhy would they do that? Mexico and Peru had what they wanted, the area of the future 13 colonies had nothing that interested them.
Maybe they could form a penal colony to send Flemish/Dutch/Walloon heretics and other "criminals" from across the empire
What if the Spanish colonized North America like Britain did, in the area of the 13 colonies. Would there be a British Mexico?
If Spain started in the OTL 13 Colony area, it would have a much larger North American empire than that of Britain - Spain was richer, had more advanced technology and had a more favorable geographic situation in the 1500s and 1600s. So whatever happens, Spain will hold more than just the 13 colonies.
Also, if Spain colonized OTL New England, it would make them a stronger power in the 1700s and 1800s. One of the critical weaknesses of Spain is that they were living hand-to-mouth for their ship timber. The country didn't have the large forests that the Ottomans did in the Balkans and the British did in North America, hence each ship lost hurt Spain much more than it hurt their British and Ottoman competitors. The result was that the Spanish were building ships out of improperly seasoned timber far too often. If the Spanish own New England instead of the British, their navy is stronger, meaning they can compete more evenly with the Ottomans in the Med and the British are just borked when they run out of oak forests on the British isles.
Lastly: the Spanish were trying to colonize Georgia in OTL, and in fact disputed much of the Colony with the new United States. If the Castillians had allowed people from the other Spanish kingdoms (particularly Catalans and Basques) to settle and have businesses in the American Colonies, they may well have been able to colonize most of the OTL 13 Colonies before the English.
fasquardon
So it sorta means that Spain and Britain kind of switch roles? Where would britain colonize? France?
Note that the Spanish were very opposed to allowing "foreigners" (which included Aragonese and anyone with a hint of non-Christian ancestry) into their colonies. This was ideological; the various Church groups viewed the Native Americans as essentially uncontaminated by the heretics and infidels of the Old World, and wanted to convert them to "pure" Catholicism. Hence also restrictions on the types of books allowed into the New World (nothing ideologically controversial, with at least some efforts to ban even popular chivalric literature as potentially distracting from the glory of God, though enforcement was very spotty).Maybe they could form a penal colony to send Flemish/Dutch/Walloon heretics and other "criminals" from across the empire
Note that the Spanish were very opposed to allowing "foreigners" (which included Aragonese and anyone with a hint of non-Christian ancestry) into their colonies. This was ideological; the various Church groups viewed the Native Americans as essentially uncontaminated by the heretics and infidels of the Old World, and wanted to convert them to "pure" Catholicism. Hence also restrictions on the types of books allowed into the New World (nothing ideologically controversial, with at least some efforts to ban even popular chivalric literature as potentially distracting from the glory of God, though enforcement was very spotty).
In practice some foreigners made it in anyway, but there's no way they would intentionally encourage the importation of heretics/criminals to contaminate this new Eden.
Still a sinner and one who will set a bad example for the natives, bringing the true faith into discredit, etc.How about petty criminals who are also pretty strongly Catholic ? Mostly peasants who follow the church pretty devoutly but are forced to steal so that they don't starve? A woman who goes to church every Sunday but sells herself on the street because her husband died and she has 3 kids to feed?
If the Castillians had allowed people from the other Spanish kingdoms (particularly Catalans and Basques) to settle and have businesses in the American Colonies, they may well have been able to colonize most of the OTL 13 Colonies before the English.
fasquardon
Are you saying they didn't allow non-Castilians from Spain to settle anywhere?
Yep. Remember that technically there wasn't a single country called "Spain" until the War of Spanish Succession; it was officially just a personal union of Castile, Aragon and various other kingdoms with their own separate laws (indeed, the two kingdoms briefly separated after Isabella's death, with Ferdinand continuing to reign in Aragon, and their daughter Juana in Castile; Ferdinand even tried to remarry and have another son in order to keep Aragon from coming under the rule of his daughter and son-in-law, whom he hated). A good comparison would be England and Scotland between 1603 and 1707, where they were technically separate kingdoms with the same monarch until the Acts of Union merged them into a unified Great Britain.That's right. The Spanish Empire wasn't Spanish - it was Castillian and all the other Spanish kingdoms were to keep out.
I think that changed in the very last years of the Spanish Empire, but most Basques and Catalans came over to the new world after the Spanish Colonies had become independent.
fasquardon
That's right. The Spanish Empire wasn't Spanish - it was Castillian and all the other Spanish kingdoms were to keep out.
I think that changed in the very last years of the Spanish Empire, but most Basques and Catalans came over to the new world after the Spanish Colonies had become independent.
fasquardon
That's... as a Colombian, surprising, since a very large portion of surnames in Antioquia and a large portion of Colombia are ones that come from Basque or Catalan origin. I know there were restrictions towards Catalan trading with the colonies, but I don't know about colonisation. This Wikipedia page lists a few Aragonese viceroys, priests (including Saint Junípero Serra) and Conquistadores.
EDIT: Hell, this article even states the trade thing is not even a Crowns issue - it's just that the only departing point to the Americas was Sevile. The dropoff in Barcelonese trade, according to ABC, started before the Catholic Kings.