What if the Spanish cannot colonize Luzon due to its Portuguese discovery being a common knowledge?

[kasumigenx]

From what I have read there is actually a Portuguese exploration in Luzon prior to that of Legaspi by Pero Fidalgo, what if this becomes common knowledge in Portugal and Iberia, I think Spain would have likely kept Don Carlos alive.
This would also mean that if Spain conquers Luzon in this scenario it would be under the Portuguese crown not the Castilian Crown.

I think in this scenario Luzon might be ceded to Portugal in the treaty of Lisbon if Portugal secedes if the OTL happens.

 

[Simreeve]

It was actually on Portugal's side of the dividing line agreed in the Treaty of Saragossa in 1529, anyway: That (north-south) line ran through the Marianas...

 

[kasumigenx]

It was actually on Portugal's side of the dividing line agreed in the Treaty of Saragossa in 1529, anyway: That (north-south) line ran through the Marianas...

I think Spain capitalized on the fact that Portugal has not known to have discovered and set foot there yet since the Portuguese expedition there is not known, I think knowledge of this might delay the conquest of Luzon by Spain since they will do that after the Iberian Union but they would lose it in Treaty of Lisbon or its counterpart likely ending up under the Dutch similar to Celebes.

 

[Slime_blob]

Apparently iirc Magellan offered it first to the Portuguese king bbut got snubbed. Later the Spanish king liked the idea and so that otl happens. So if the Portuguese king did not snub him and instead funds him, that might work. Also why only Luzon, Portugal coukdve taken San Lazaro (old name of the Philippines) or Filipinas. And colonize it easily by divide and conquer ala what Spain did

 

[kasumigenx]

Apparently iirc Magellan offered it first to the Portuguese king bbut got snubbed. Later the Spanish king liked the idea and so that otl happens. So if the Portuguese king did not snub him and instead funds him, that might work. Also why only Luzon, Portugal coukdve taken San Lazaro (old name of the Philippines) or Filipinas. And colonize it easily by divide and conquer ala what Spain did

I am asking that because Portuguese explorers already knew and had actually set foot in Luzon first but not the Visayas and Mindanao prior to the Spanish setting foot there in the Legaspi expedition, the issue is that their discovery did not become common knowledge.

 

[Slime_blob]

I am asking that because Portuguese explorers already knew and had actually set foot in Luzon first but not the Visayas and Mindanao prior to the Spanish setting foot there in the Legaspi expedition, the issue is that their discovery did not become common knowledge.

Hmmm if they again rediscovered it lets say magellan got funded by th e [portugues king and like went otl but successful later goes to manila due to the china trade it might be possible

 

[kasumigenx]

Hmmm if they again rediscovered it lets say magellan got funded by th e [portugues king and like went otl but successful later goes to manila due to the china trade it might be possible

Magellan only set foot in Visayas and Mindanao, Fidalgo set foot in Luzon prior to Legaspi and Pires had knowledge to it prior to Magellan.

 

[Slime_blob]

I

Magellan only set foot in Visayas and Mindanao, Fidalgo set foot in Luzon prior to Legaspi and Pires had knowledge to it prior to Magellan.

Mean like rediscovery of the Philippines. Magellan hired by Portugal so that he would claim it for the Portuguese crown instead of Spain.

 

[kasumigenx]

I

Mean like rediscovery of the Philippines. Magellan hired by Portugal so that he would claim it for the Portuguese crown instead of Spain.

If Portugal documented its discovery of Luzon, Luzon won't be considered a part of the Philippines.

 

[Slime_blob]

If Portugal documented its discovery of Luzon, Luzon won't be considered a part of the Philippines.

they laid claim on that land in the treaty with Spain meaning all of the Philippines would be given to Portugal instead. Better implementation of tordeillas would result into a Portuguese Philippines and Americas mainly most of Latin America except a few smol parts of brazil will go to Spain

 

[kasumigenx]

they laid claim on that land in the treaty with Spain meaning all of the Philippines would be given to Portugal instead. Better implementation of tordeillas would result into a Portuguese Philippines and Americas mainly most of Latin America except a few smol parts of brazil will go to Spain

But the Spanish had the right for discovering the Visayas and Mindanao even if it is illegal for them to do so due to the Treaty of Tordesillas, while the case of Luzon and Celebes were actually similar because the Spanish actually held them despite the Spanish having conquests their difference here is that the prior Portuguese discovery and exploration of Luzon is not well known and documented.

 

[Terço]

Then it probably becames the center of the portuguese empire in eastern Asia.
Macau is useful as a trade hub ,but if the portuguese convert part of population and we add to that a larger number of catholic japanese refugees in the XVII century , then Luçao will be the seat of a Viceking and lazarinos will in time become the main ethnic group in Macau and Formosa .
This scenario will set in motion the colonization of Formosa and the expansion to the north and west of Macau ( Zhuhai becames New Macau in the XX century ?? ) and will probably end up whit lazarinos in the Sonda Islands ( Timor, Flores, etc) and in the XX century probably at least in Mozambique but I can imagine that after WII the lazarine society will be tempted to maintain a close relationship with a catholic conservative/ corporativist Portugal and could even send troops to Africa to fight the Soviet and Chinese backed insurgents.

 

[kasumigenx]

Then it probably becames the center of the portuguese empire in eastern Asia.
Macau is useful as a trade hub ,but if the portuguese convert part of population and we add to that a larger number of catholic japanese refugees in the XVII century , then Luçao will be the seat of a Viceking and lazarinos will in time become the main ethnic group in Macau and Formosa .
This scenario will set in motion the colonization of Formosa and the expansion to the north and west of Macau ( Zhuhai becames New Macau in the XX century ?? ) and will probably end up whit lazarinos in the Sonda Islands ( Timor, Flores, etc) and in the XX century probably at least in Mozambique but I can imagine that after WII the lazarine society will be tempted to maintain a close relationship with a catholic conservative/ corporativist Portugal and could even send troops to Africa to fight the Soviet and Chinese backed insurgents.

Perhaps that would be enough to butterfly Koxinga.

 

[Terço]

Perhaps that would be enough to butterfly Koxinga.

Or co-op Koxinga as an ally after a pragmatic convertion to catholicism of the Ming refugees that land in Formosa.
And the Tanka, the boat people, that where the lowest class, probably due to the fact that they descended from non Han populations that adopted the cantonese language, could be a easy target for conversion by the jesuits ending up in Macau, Formosa, Malacca, etc

 

[ToasterOven456]

Then it probably becames the center of the portuguese empire in eastern Asia.
Macau is useful as a trade hub ,but if the portuguese convert part of population and we add to that a larger number of catholic japanese refugees in the XVII century , then Luçao will be the seat of a Viceking and lazarinos will in time become the main ethnic group in Macau and Formosa .
This scenario will set in motion the colonization of Formosa and the expansion to the north and west of Macau ( Zhuhai becames New Macau in the XX century ?? ) and will probably end up whit lazarinos in the Sonda Islands ( Timor, Flores, etc) and in the XX century probably at least in Mozambique but I can imagine that after WII the lazarine society will be tempted to maintain a close relationship with a catholic conservative/ corporativist Portugal and could even send troops to Africa to fight the Soviet and Chinese backed insurgents.

A Portuguese hub in Luzon would probably let them control at least the Lesser Sundas. They would work with the Spanish during the Iberian Union to conquer the Moluccas and a balance of power would look something like this

 

[kasumigenx]

I forgot to say that after the time Pero Fidalgo expedition happened Portugal went into a period of regencies that support Spanish interests like Catherine of Austria so John Manuel's survival could have prevented or thwarted Spanish colonization of the Philippines even if it meant that they ally with the Bruneians.