What if the Red Air Force used ramming attacks against the Luftwaffe en masse

The Soviet Air Force, during the opening stages of Barbarossa conducted about 200 ramming attacks (crashing your plane into the other guy's plane on purpose)...given the massively superior kill ratio's the Germans enjoyed in 1941, what would have been the effect if that had been done en masse (Particularly against German fighter aircraft) against the LW
 
Replacing lost aces for the Luftwaffe won't be much of a problem, given that the Germans were generally better trained than the Red Air Force and targets over the Eastern Front were in abundance for the Germans. However, replacing planes is going to be a problem.

To minimize the loss of valuable aircraft, the Luftwaffe in the East undergo a major tactics overhaul to help them tackle the suicide Soviet fighters. Maybe after seeing the success of such strikes, the Soviets also do the same for land targets to slow down the German advance.
 
Ramming tactics work only once, against an unprepared/unaware foe. As soon as the enemy is aware of such tactics, he will react accordingly. Even those unprepared, if their planes are better (in the sense of more maneuverable), chances are high to evade the would-be rammer and shoot him down.

Actually, that was one of my problems with yout latest installment in "mano a mano". You had the attacking Soviet forces resort to ramming. You have to be in very dire straits or very desperate to try such tactics. And if you are attacking at such a grand scale, ramming the opponents' planes is somewhat illogical. This isn't OTL's early stages of Barabrossa, after all. And the Axis fighters in that TL are much more maneuverable than their Soviet counterparts. It just did not work for me for the precise reasons I just mentioned.
 
Ramming tactics work only once, against an unprepared/unaware foe. As soon as the enemy is aware of such tactics, he will react accordingly. Even those unprepared, if their planes are better (in the sense of more maneuverable), chances are high to evade the would-be rammer and shoot him down.

Actually, that was one of my problems with yout latest installment in "mano a mano". You had the attacking Soviet forces resort to ramming. You have to be in very dire straits or very desperate to try such tactics. And if you are attacking at such a grand scale, ramming the opponents' planes is somewhat illogical. This isn't OTL's early stages of Barabrossa, after all. And the Axis fighters in that TL are much more maneuverable than their Soviet counterparts. It just did not work for me for the precise reasons I just mentioned.

interesting....i think ill retcon that idea
 
Ramming Survivability?

Just out of curiosity, is there a realistic chance of the ramming pilot surviving such an attack? I know that pilots could and would parachute out of their planes successfully during WWII, could that be done successfully if the pilot has just rammed another plane, and maybe sheered off the opponents wing? Soviet Planes tended to be made of a lot more steel than German ones due to the aluminum shortage, meaning they should be relatively more durable, and relatively more likely to hold together.

However, if ramming is tantamount to suicide, how are Red Army commanders supposed to motivate the men to go kamikaze on the Germans? These are Russians fighting for a secular and godless regime, not Japanese Shinto practitioners indoctrinated by the Bushido ethos. Its not as if the commissar can promise them a one way ticket to workers paradise! Other than threatening to shoot the pilot's family, I cannot guess how pilots are going to be encouraged to commit suicide en mass.
 
Just out of curiosity, is there a realistic chance of the ramming pilot surviving such an attack? I know that pilots could and would parachute out of their planes successfully during WWII, could that be done successfully if the pilot has just rammed another plane, and maybe sheered off the opponents wing? Soviet Planes tended to be made of a lot more steel than German ones due to the aluminum shortage, meaning they should be relatively more durable, and relatively more likely to hold together.

However, if ramming is tantamount to suicide, how are Red Army commanders supposed to motivate the men to go kamikaze on the Germans? These are Russians fighting for a secular and godless regime, not Japanese Shinto practitioners indoctrinated by the Bushido ethos. Its not as if the commissar can promise them a one way ticket to workers paradise! Other than threatening to shoot the pilot's family, I cannot guess how pilots are going to be encouraged to commit suicide en mass.

You might want to look at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ramming
 
Thanks. This actually reinforces my point. Ramming maneuvers are always a means of last resort in a perceived hopeless situation. Just look at the situations described in that wiki article.

Polish pilots during a time when Poland was about to be destroyed for all intents and purposes.
British pilots during the BoB which was a lot more contested than many Brit fanboys would like to admit.
Soviet pilots during the first stages of Barbarossa. Can you say extreme desperation?
Japanese pilots and German pilots in the last stages of the 2nd WW. Desperation to the moon and back. Even back then most German pilots preferred to try and ecape home when they were outnumbered and/or out of ammo.
It was never really tried on a large scale compared to Blair Witch's otherwise excellent Manstein TL for obvious reasons. And it's almost NEVER been done by air forces on the offensive because it just does not make sense. You are attacking and your skills might be needed later on, after all.
 
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