From what I read in old Portuguese records shown by a historian I know, the Portuguese were friendly with the Bruneians and even explored Luzon during the reign of John III, however that was stopped due to the regency and influence of Catherine of Austria, what if the Portuguese and later Iberians created concessions like Portuguese taking cities from the Bruneian Empire instead of conquest which would be inherited later by a united iberia, what would have happened instead?
What if the Portuguese/Iberians make concessions with Bruneian Empire instead of colonizing the Philippines
- Thread starter kasumigenx
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In all likelihood the Philippines would either become a British or Dutch Colony instead. But more likely British. Don't forgot they DID occupy Manila in 1762. But we will probably stay that way until maybe 1960 or so because there's zero chance America will declare war on Britain for the Philippines
Or Britain might combine Malaysia and Philippines in 1960 and we might end up as part of a greater Malaysia
Though this might butterfly out America joining WW2 completely and we might end up as part of the GEACPS (greater east asia co-prosperity sphere)
Or Britain might combine Malaysia and Philippines in 1960 and we might end up as part of a greater Malaysia
Though this might butterfly out America joining WW2 completely and we might end up as part of the GEACPS (greater east asia co-prosperity sphere)
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Although if the Portuguese made concessions with Brunei making factories in the OTL Philippines and Borneo, the Dutch colonization could be butterflied, I don't know about the British.
16th century imperialism is a very different beast from 18th-19th century imperialism. This is a function of the greater development of capital and financial institutions in the latter period.
Why does this matter? Because the former relied more on actual direct control of the lands they are trying to take over, thus Portuguese conquistadores in Malacca and Spanish conquistadores burning down Tenochtitlan to make way for feudal encomiendas, while the latter only needed financial bludgeoning as a weapon, thus the small concessions of a few dozen British agents to destroy the economies of entire regions of the world and remold them to the desires of the London markets.
In short, a concession is not what the conquistadores who came to the Philippines wanted. They wanted land, serfs, some gold, and the conversion of people to Christianity.
Why does this matter? Because the former relied more on actual direct control of the lands they are trying to take over, thus Portuguese conquistadores in Malacca and Spanish conquistadores burning down Tenochtitlan to make way for feudal encomiendas, while the latter only needed financial bludgeoning as a weapon, thus the small concessions of a few dozen British agents to destroy the economies of entire regions of the world and remold them to the desires of the London markets.
In short, a concession is not what the conquistadores who came to the Philippines wanted. They wanted land, serfs, some gold, and the conversion of people to Christianity.
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The Portuguese were friendly to the Bruneians, not the Spanish so concessions with Brunei under Portugal similar to that of China is actually possible.
Again, that's not the point. They might be "friendly", but the motivations of Spanish conquistadors are fundamentally different from that of British agents. The reason Goa and Macao held off on conquering more land around them is the strength of the kingdoms that surrounded them. If given the chance, the Portuguese would have taken far more land than that.
Remember, that Portugal did not actually conquer Congo and kept them as vassals until later, the Portuguese can actually prevent the Spanish conquistadors from getting the Philippines by allying with the Bruneians when they don't have a power projection there yet by allying with the Bruneians and they could delay any conquest aside from factories until they get access to the Pacific by getting some of the Andean Provinces from Spain or colonizing Chile, in this case, the later conquest would be anyone's guess but they could get a lesser amount of territories compared to the Spanish and snatch vassals and tributaries intact from Brunei.
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The question though, is why would the Spanish or Portuguese ally with the Muslim Bruneians? What would Legazpi or his ilk get out of allying the Muslim Bruneians that they cannot simply take by force?
The Portuguese have no power projection in the Pacific so they have no benefit in getting the Philippines yet so making vassals and gaining territories in the Philippines would be overextending so they could make a deal with the Bruneians instead similar to with China in Macau, the Portuguese led by Pero Fidalgo had explored a part of Luzon decades prior to Legaspi and did not conquer it, so they could deal with the Bruneians temporary and ally with them.
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Fair enough.
Still, 'concessions' from the Bruneians would simply mean cities like Manila and Davao become hubs of trade and Christianity, which would radiate outward to the mostly pagan lands of the north. I imagine Portuguese and Spanish adventurers and missionaries would establish themselves as lords over the pagan regions of the Philippines, which they would convert to Christianity. And this would lead to a somewhat different yet similar arrangement to OTL. The Muslim nobility might survive, but depending on how the conquistadors and missionaries act, the forceful conversions might be replaced with more peaceful conversions. I imagine Japanese and Chinese converts will end up coming to settle in Manila and the Tagalog regions as IOTL.
I think India would be a good template for this and how they mean as basically colonialism mainly trading posts
The difference is that India was really rich and populated, while the Philippines was... not.
Technically Philippines is the trading hub of SEA iirc. Meaning a post in Manila and others would have been probably "enough" for them. Basically import Chinese goods for cheap, resell them for a huge profit
Fair enough, though the missionaries might still want to buckle down to convert the populace should China still close off, which Brunei might not like. And conquistadores would be itching for a fight.
That is also what the Portuguese would do if the Portuguese gained the Andes or OTL Chile as well.
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