What if the Polish Partitions Never happened???

B-29_Bomber

Banned
The thing is that unless you strengthen the Monarch, you're not going anywhere.


Maybe a way to go about it is to avoid the elective monarchy?
 
The thing is that unless you strengthen the Monarch, you're not going anywhere.


Maybe a way to go about it is to avoid the elective monarchy?

Maybe King Jan Sobieski secures the throne for his son and abolishes the elective monarchy in favour of a dynastic one. Once he dies, the crown prince becomes King in favour of August der Starke of Saxony who is therefore not elected King .
 
Poland would need workable central government and strong king with heretidary monarchy. Problem with Poland-Lithuania was that all power was practically on hands of nobles and they were totally uncapable handle problems. Even if P-L wouldn't be swallowed by its neighbours, whole kingdom would have collapsed on some point if then king doesn't decide coup, dissolve sejm or even restrict its power and commit dozens other reforms.
 
The thing is that unless you strengthen the Monarch, you're not going anywhere.


Maybe a way to go about it is to avoid the elective monarchy?

Meh. Despite the sad ending, the system worked passably well for the first hundred years or so. Weaken the liberum veto, and prevent the pauperization of the average noble and the corresponding rise of the magnates. This may allow the democratic system to remain functional, without devolving into a state of oligarchic near-anarchy, until the 19th century approaches and reforms become more likely.
 
Perhaps butterfly away the wasa gaining the crowns of both sweden and Poland. Ergo with two different dynastys the swedes or poles have less reason to intervene in each others affairs and instead form an allaince to counter russia. At the same time the cossaks are better treated so they dont revolt. Finally have a stronger Hungary and perhaps butterfly away Mohacs thereby creating a situation where Poland can expect ai form some major powers to halt the Ottoman advance. I think the key is keeping Poland from being mired by rebbelions or getting wrecked by pointless dynastic conflicts.
 
Perhaps butterfly away the wasa gaining the crowns of both sweden and Poland. Ergo with two different dynastys the swedes or poles have less reason to intervene in each others affairs and instead form an allaince to counter russia. At the same time the cossaks are better treated so they dont revolt. Finally have a stronger Hungary and perhaps butterfly away Mohacs thereby creating a situation where Poland can expect ai form some major powers to halt the Ottoman advance. I think the key is keeping Poland from being mired by rebbelions or getting wrecked by pointless dynastic conflicts.

In my statement above I suggested, if Jan Sobieski could have altered the elective monarchy into a dynastic monarchy maybe before Kahlenberg/Vienna. There was a threat of the Ottoman Hungarian vassal to invade Poland during his absence. Maybe after Sobieski is seen as "Savior of Christian Occident"he may have a position strong enough to make his heir crownprince. So the Sobieski line continues and August never becomes King of Poland after Sobieski´s death...
 
In my statement above I suggested, if Jan Sobieski could have altered the elective monarchy into a dynastic monarchy maybe before Kahlenberg/Vienna. There was a threat of the Ottoman Hungarian vassal to invade Poland during his absence. Maybe after Sobieski is seen as "Savior of Christian Occident"he may have a position strong enough to make his heir crownprince. So the Sobieski line continues and August never becomes King of Poland after Sobieski´s death...

Right forgot vasas came after sobieski but could we have a pod where mohacs ends in ottoman defeat a weaker ottomans surely helps poland no?
 

LordKalvert

Banned
Right forgot vasas came after sobieski but could we have a pod where mohacs ends in ottoman defeat a weaker ottomans surely helps poland no?

Not sure about that- a weakened Ottoman Empire might make Poland a juicy apple that can be eaten Might lead to an earlier partition

How about we use the Saxon kings?

An early defeat of the Swedes in the Great Northern War, leads to a strengthened monarchy and limits Russian gains?
 
No miracle of house of Brandenburg, Prussia is destroyed by Russia, Poland remains russian protectorate. Then during th late 18 and early 19 ce turies Poland reforms and modrrnizes finaly freeing itself of russian influence and ending as a power comparable to A-H. In fact anything that removes or weakens Prussia probably would prevent partitions in the form similar to otl.
 
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