What if the Ottomans attacked Bulgaria in 1885 along with Serbia?

How would the Great Powers react? Will the attack succeed or will it end up being a humiliating defeat for the Ottomans?
 
let me make sure there is no misunderstanding..

The Ottomans attack both the Serbs and Bulgarians?

if that is correct, well, uh.. The Turks are in trouble
 
let me make sure there is no misunderstanding..

The Ottomans attack both the Serbs and Bulgarians?

if that is correct, well, uh.. The Turks are in trouble

No he's saying that what if the Ottomans reacted to the serb's decleration of war on Bulgaria by also declaring war on bulgaria, so that the bulgarian army wouldn't be able to be switched from the turkish border to the north west, the way it did in otl.
 
No he's saying that what if the Ottomans reacted to the serb's decleration of war on Bulgaria by also declaring war on bulgaria, so that the bulgarian army wouldn't be able to be switched from the turkish border to the north west, the way it did in otl.

Well, it wouldn't be a declaration of war, per say, since Bulgaria is still de juro an Ottoman vassal state. But the attack could very well be called a "police action" or "suppression" based on the attempt to seize control of eastern Rumelia. The end result is probably continued Ottoman control of the province and the case of ethnic conflict tossed to international mediation.
 
Well, it wouldn't be a declaration of war, per say, since Bulgaria is still de juro an Ottoman vassal state. But the attack could very well be called a "police action" or "suppression" based on the attempt to seize control of eastern Rumelia. The end result is probably continued Ottoman control of the province and the case of ethnic conflict tossed to international mediation.

IT would also send Russians over the Caucasian Mountains
 
IT would also send Russians over the Caucasian Mountains

Can the Russians make the move fast enough to prevent the Ottoman-Serbian forces from presenting the world with a fiat accompli, though? Particularly if the Serbs and Bulgarians start engaging in ethnic/gurellia violence, displacement of civilians, ect. to prevent as much focus being on the Turkish versions. Especially since GB has every reason to keep Bulgaria and Russia from disrupting the balance of power in the region and are still clearly the global hegemon
 
Why Not? After all, the Bulgarians expected an attack by the Ottomans, not the Serbians.

During around the same time, Abdul Hamid II refused to send troops to Egypt and restore order by getting rid of the Mahdist. If he refuses that then he definitely refuse to attack his proto-Vassal Bulgaria in which it would attract the Great Powers again. This Abdul Hamid II era, not Enver Pasha.
 

raharris1973

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The rule of 18th and 19th century European politics was - the Ottoman Empire does not get to conquer anything back from Christians.

The rule did not lapse until 1913.
 
Everyone knows if something happens in the Balkans, involving the Turks, Russia's gonna be like

Союз нерушимый республик свободных
Сплотила навеки Великая Русь.
Да здравствует созданный волей народов
Единый, могучий Советский Союз!
 
Can the Russians make the move fast enough to prevent the Ottoman-Serbian forces from presenting the world with a fiat accompli, though? Particularly if the Serbs and Bulgarians start engaging in ethnic/gurellia violence, displacement of civilians, ect. to prevent as much focus being on the Turkish versions. Especially since GB has every reason to keep Bulgaria and Russia from disrupting the balance of power in the region and are still clearly the global hegemon

If the Ottomans attack their Christian Vassal, so long as Russia keeps it Slavic, unlike in Crimea, everyone will be on their side. Remember the Russians seriously proposed dividing up the Ottomans with the Brits, who only rejected this because they thought the Russians would back stab them.
 
Can the Russians make the move fast enough to prevent the Ottoman-Serbian forces from presenting the world with a fiat accompli, though? Particularly if the Serbs and Bulgarians start engaging in ethnic/gurellia violence, displacement of civilians, ect. to prevent as much focus being on the Turkish versions. Especially since GB has every reason to keep Bulgaria and Russia from disrupting the balance of power in the region and are still clearly the global hegemon
Austria-Hungary might clash with Russia in that scenario. In 1876 a almost war between k.u.k Monarchy and Russian Empire over a Balkan war between Russia +Bulgaria against the Ottomans had been averted at the Berlin conference .
 
Quite unlikely. Both Russia and Britain were strongly advising the Ottomans against interfering. But if the Ottomans actually intervened, this would be the perfect opportunity for Russia to invade the Ottoman Empire again. Which apart from getting possibly additional territory from the Ottomans, has the benefit of establishing Russian control over Bulgaria.

The rule of 18th and 19th century European politics was - the Ottoman Empire does not get to conquer anything back from Christians.

The rule did not lapse until 1913.
You seem to have forgotten the Berlin treaty. Also the Ottomans gained part of Greece in 1897. The Ottoman suppression of the first Serbian uprising also arguably counts.
And there is of course the Ottomans regaining territory lost by the Austrians and Venetians in the 18th century. Really, the only time the Ottomans gained some territory and were not allowed to keep it was the 1897 war with Greece and they still received some territory in the peace treaty.

Everyone knows if something happens in the Balkans, involving the Turks, Russia's gonna be like

Союз нерушимый республик свободных
Сплотила навеки Великая Русь.
Да здравствует созданный волей народов
Единый, могучий Советский Союз!
What does the Soviet anthem has to do with the Russian Empire?
 
Quite unlikely. Both Russia and Britain were strongly advising the Ottomans against interfering. But if the Ottomans actually intervened, this would be the perfect opportunity for Russia to invade the Ottoman Empire again. Which apart from getting possibly additional territory from the Ottomans, has the benefit of establishing Russian control over Bulgaria.


You seem to have forgotten the Berlin treaty. Also the Ottomans gained part of Greece in 1897. The Ottoman suppression of the first Serbian uprising also arguably counts.
And there is of course the Ottomans regaining territory lost by the Austrians and Venetians in the 18th century. Really, the only time the Ottomans gained some territory and were not allowed to keep it was the 1897 war with Greece and they still received some territory in the peace treaty.


What does the Soviet anthem has to do with the Russian Empire?

The Ottomans got land in the Berlin treaty to avoid Russia dominating the Balkans. And the Ottomans did not participate in it. Besides, he means like Ottomans taking Serb land after defeating them. This would be impossible.

I think you don't know what the results of the Greco-Turkish war was. The Ottomans gained a little border districts and forts. In the mean time they lost Crete as an autonomous province. They didn't gain sh*t actually.

Mind my language...
 
The Ottomans got land in the Berlin treaty to avoid Russia dominating the Balkans.
True, but it still does not change the fact that territory taken by a Christian state was returned to the Ottomans.

And the Ottomans did not participate in it. Besides, he means like Ottomans taking Serb land after defeating them. This would be impossible.
The only reason it did not happen after the Turkish-Serbian war of 1876 was that the war with Russia broke out shortly after that.

I think you don't know what the results of the Greco-Turkish war was. The Ottomans gained a little border districts and forts. In the mean time they lost Crete as an autonomous province. They didn't gain sh*t actually.
Then again this had already been a self-governing area, so in a sense only the previous status quo was being restored.
 
Well, intervening on the side of the Serbs does seem like it would drive a wedge between the Austrians and the Russians, possibly killing the League of the Three Emperors early. What would Germany have to say about this, however? IOTL, they obviously retained their Austrian alliance, and if that same course of action was followed here, that would also put them on the same side as the Turks. I'm guessing this would result in multilateral arbitration rather than an escalating war, since that's how these things usually ended up at this time.

In Britain, Salisbury has replaced Gladstone as PM by this time, and while he wasn't as Turkophobic as Gladstone, he still didn't favor them quite as much as Disraeli had. Might not take too kindly to their act of aggression, but would also want to balance their interests against the Russians. A lot might depend on what the situation on the ground is by the time everyone agrees to stop fighting.
 
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