What if the Netherlands keep Suriname and New Guinea?

There is not so much to write here, but what if the dutch decides to keep those territories, and later grant them statehood, including voting rights and regional governments?
 
You mean the entire island of New Guinea. Depending on when, it probably gets a more dutch system of governing obviously, which means more political parties

You'd have a united new guinea right now since there is no indonesia there (meaning no west papua push for independence), i still think the country is still poor and underdeveloped depending on when independence is granted (and how much money is actually put into the island for infrastructure development).
 

gaijin

Banned
There is not so much to write here, but what if the dutch decides to keep those territories, and later grant them statehood, including voting rights and regional governments?

We did decide we wanted to keep them. Turns out the locals didn't want us to stay.
 
You mean the entire island of New Guinea. Depending on when, it probably gets a more dutch system of governing obviously, which means more political parties

You'd have a united new guinea right now since there is no indonesia there (meaning no west papua push for independence), i still think the country is still poor and underdeveloped depending on when independence is granted (and how much money is actually put into the island for infrastructure development).
Indonesia would have taken the whole island if it could. However the Germans rather than the Dutch got there first and the rest with 20thC history.
 
Indonesia would have taken the whole island if it could. However the Germans rather than the Dutch got there first and the rest with 20thC history.

that's the other option, indonesia takes the entire thing, which means that the current west papua situation would actually be known by most people.
 
We did decide we wanted to keep them. Turns out the locals didn't want us to stay.
I disagree. Independence was basicly forced upon Surinam. That is the reason why 1/3rd of the population moved to the Netherlands before independence. If Surinam wouldn't be forced into independence in the 70's, it is likely (although not certain obviously) the same thing would happen with Surinam as what happened to Aruba. Status aparte inpreparation to independence, but never actualy becoming independent.

Also you are right that the people of Dutch New Guinea did not want to remain part of the Netherlands, but they certainly did not want to become part of Indonesia. I could see them wanting to remain part of the kingdom for protection against Indonesian agressian. That said, the Netherland would not be able to give them protection against Indonesian agression, so they probably end up being occupied by Indonesia after a short war anyway.
 
We did decide we wanted to keep them. Turns out the locals didn't want us to stay.

There was no major independence movement in Suriname at the time of its independence and Dutch New Guinea was in favor of staying with the Dutch as well over the Indonesians, IIRC.
 
Also you are right that the people of Dutch New Guinea did not want to remain part of the Netherlands, but they certainly did not want to become part of Indonesia. I could see them wanting to remain part of the kingdom for protection against Indonesian agressian. That said, the Netherland would not be able to give them protection against Indonesian agression, so they probably end up being occupied by Indonesia after a short war anyway.

There was a plan made by the dutch to make New GUinea to declare independence unilaterally to prevent it from being annexed into Indonesia, at least according to wikipedia.

Let's say the following: On the late 50s, Indonesia creates a analogue to the british dominion, granting independence to new guinea but leaving the dutch royal family as the "De jure" head of states, while keeping a limited military presence. On the late 70s they also do the same thing to suriname, creating a independent Suriname that is also a member of the "dutch commonwealth". Is that plausible?
 
We did decide we wanted to keep them. Turns out the locals didn't want us to stay.
As well as a certain American president who betrayed us, he feared Indonesia going Communist and thus made it clear he would not back the Netherlands if it would go to a full war.
 

BossaNova

Banned
Difficult - as it would require Dutch politicians growing a spine. Suriname and New Guinea would be better off in every way imaginable, though. Suriname went from a Latin-American tiger to the barely-functioning narc state it is today that elected their version of Pablo Escobar as president twice. It's actually astounding that it took the Surinamese people less than five years to run their country into the ground. New Guinea, well...the locals would be better off in any way imaginable; truth be told, they didn't want us to leave. American pressure, as usual, was all it took to weaken Dutch resolve.
 
Like many Ambonese, West-Timorese during the police actions, many locals did want us to stay, though.
I am not sure that they wanted us to stay. I think it is more correct to say that they did not want to become part of Indonesia and remaining part of the Netherlands for a while would be a more likely way to become independent than becoming part of Indonesia. Since there is no chance that Southern Malucu will become independent, they were right.
 
The situation as I'm aware is that the Surinamese had a large amount of people who wanted independence, but also a large amount of people who were in support of continuing their relation with the Netherlands like Aruba and other Dutch Caribbean islands had. New Guinea had a lot of people who didn't like the Dutch and would like to unify with the eastern half of the island, but on the other hand were absolutely terrified of Indonesia which wanted to annex them. Presumably, the Dutch could negotiate with them for protection, and indeed, the Dutch had to protect them from the Indonesians multiple times in the 50s.

What you need is the Dutch to more firmly commit to keeping these places within the "Dutch colonial empire", call it the "Kingdom of the Netherlands" as it is now instead. I don't see how the Netherlands could have done worse of a job in Suriname as what happened in Suriname in the 1980s given the violence and drug trafficking. New Guinea might be harder, but it probably wouldn't be too hard to "win the hearts and minds" of New Guineans to view the Dutch as a necessary evil against the Indonesians. The problem here is that the Dutch will need the spend the money for military forces in these regions to repel the most radical independence movements as well as in the case of New Guinea the Indonesians, and I'm sure both New Guinea and Suriname will demand plenty of funds from the central government to help develop themselves and thus be a drag on the Dutch economy. This is a problem, but it's manageable if the right people are in power. I think New Guinea will eventually have to be cut loose, although after a strong agreement with Indonesia exists, but Suriname is probably capable of being part of the Dutch empire the way the Dutch Caribbean is now. I think the Dutch can do better than OTL Suriname, with the massive amounts of emigrants and the drug conflicts and massive murder rate that occurred there.
 
Probably would evolve into autonomous governments in the area though I doubt the Indonesians would like there colonial oppression excuse they used to constantly harass New Guiana.
 
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