What if the Mongols sacked Mecca?

I was wondering what would happen if the Mongols somehow managed to reach and sack Mecca, after
the Siege of Baghdad (1258)?
Would the Mongols have attacked Mecca? What would be factors that may cause the Mongols to attack Mecca?
Also, what would have been the effects of an attack? What would have been the reaction of the world?
 
Would the Mongols have attacked Mecca? What would be factors that may cause the Mongols to attack Mecca?
First of all that might happen only in ATL, I presume.

The obvious POD is the later death of the Great Universal Khaan and so Hulagu doesn't have to withdraw most of his forces into Mongolia (thus making the Mamlyuk victory possible).
So in this ATL the Mongols conquered Syria and Egypt.
And the Arabs are in between Iran and Egypt - two main possessions of Hulagu.
To secure communication lines between those two regions Hulagu might think that the Arabs have to be taught a lesson, something spectacular, awe-inspiring. For example sacking Mecca. To show everybody who is in charge and that even the deserts cannot save you from the Mongol wrath.

But that's not too probable.
The mentality of the Mongols of that period is 'do not piss off (any) gods without good reason or by necessity'; and sacking the sacred town might piss off the Muslim god from their point of view, which should be avoided if possible.
(Ye, the Mongols sacked Baghdad and murdered the caliph, but they considered him to be more secular, than religious leader.)

And last but not least - what saved the Arabian towns deep in Arabia for millennia - too much effort, too little gain. So you don't sack Mecca for the reasons of profit, it's too protected by nature and it's not too rich.
I guess the Arabs, closely associated with Mecca have to infuriate the Mongols like killing the Mongol ambassadors or someone important, a Borjigin of high birth, that's possible as the Arabs were often engaged in raiding. And when it is a point of honor, the revenge - then it is more likely that the Mongols would make such a difficult campaign for so little profit.

Also, what would have been the effects of an attack? What would have been the reaction of the world?
Even in OTL the Mongol conquest was a shock to the Muslim world as it was. In the ATL it is even more. So sacking of Mecca wouldn't change anything too much.
As I said the Mongols would't hurt sacred Muslim sanctuaries in Mecca even if they sacked the town, they were too superstitious ))
 
I was wondering what would happen if the Mongols somehow managed to reach and sack Mecca, after the Siege of Baghdad (1258)?
Would the Mongols have attacked Mecca? What would be factors that may cause the Mongols to attack Mecca?

What would draw the Mongols so far south, into such a barren and poor country?

And Mecca, despite its religious status, was a small, relatively poor city.
 

Vuru

Banned
Mecca was sacked a lot of times, often by muslims themselves

However, if a heathen nation raids it DURING the hajj for maximum bloodbath, it will result in... interesting consequences
 
Mecca was sacked a lot of times, often by muslims themselves

However, if a heathen nation raids it DURING the hajj for maximum bloodbath, it will result in... interesting consequences

The Qarmatians were not Muslim and they sacked Makkah and they dismantled the Kaaba and they stuffed those on hajj in the zamzam well poisoning the water.
 
Even in OTL the Mongol conquest was a shock to the Muslim world as it was. In the ATL it is even more. So sacking of Mecca wouldn't change anything too much.
As I said the Mongols would't hurt sacred Muslim sanctuaries in Mecca even if they sacked the town, they were too superstitious ))

What's the possibility of the Mongol's relocating Mecca's artifacts to somewhere else more politically advantageous and closer to the Mongol's centers of power?
 
What's the possibility of the Mongol's relocating Mecca's artifacts to somewhere else more politically advantageous and closer to the Mongol's centers of power?
What for?
When the Mongols were not Muslims, they didn't care too much where the artifacts were. And they wouldn't move them in order not to piss off the Muslim god (as the Muslims would definitely explain to them).
When the Mongols become Muslim (which is pretty inevitable in any ATL), they wouldn't dare...
 
So would the pod involve a Mongol victory at Ain Jalut?
Actually no.
If the Great Universal Khaan had died later, there would not have been Ain Jalut. It would be butterflied away.
There might have been other battle with all the Mongol forces of Hulagu present.
Or the Mamlyuks might choose 'horezmshah's tactics' - to hide behind the walls.
Either way the Mongols had had much better chances to win.
 
Would it be possible for Mongols to raid Mecca from the Gulf? So invading the Persian gulf Arab states and travelling inland? Let´s say if they fail against the Abbassids even before reaching and failing against the Mameluks?
 
It really ws? Even during the Golden Age of Islam?

Yes, it had not grown and likely was much smaller from the time of the ascent of Ali ibn Talib till the Abbasid period.

Islamic Golden Age is a misnomer, as you will learn if you haven't already, I have a counter theory and disagree with the notions of an Islamic Golden Age.
 
What? When did that happen?

In around 905-907, the Qarmatians who recently rebelled against their spiritual masters of the Fatimid caliphate launched a campaign against the Abbasid forces in the Hijaz after previously forcing the Abbasid armies out of Kuwait whilst Abbasid forces where nearly non existent. Qarmatian warriors then ascended upon the Holy City of Makkah and Madinah and killed everyone they could and is said to have massacred between 20k and 35k civilians and soldiers. Then they, under their warrior king al-Jannabi attacked Makkah in earnest and destroyed the city wholesale in 930, stuffing bodies in the holy Zamzam and taking the Kaabah and dismantling it and taking tis bricks in a caravan to their strongholds in the east. Abbasid forces then began to take an initiative against the Qarmatians who now where spreading into Syria. The Abbasids initially had been wary of the Qarmatians due to their association as a vassal of the powerful Fatimid state; however, fallout between Qarmatians and their overlords in Cairo led to the start to counterattacks by the Abbasids in Syria and Iraq. Abbasid forces then fatally defeated Qarmatians in southern Syria after securing peace with Byzantium allowing it to prosecute war upon the Qarmatians. The end result was the suppression of Qarmatian power to the far east of Arabia and their disintegration as a religious group came to a head after the Safavid Empire reevaluated Shi'ism in a new era and most former Ghulat or millennials of the Qarmatians joined the winning team if you like and began to align with the Safavid state and its religious dogma. This si the origin of Saudi Arabia's Shi'i minority in the Eastern Province.

Mind you, this is an extremely weak Abbasid state, one that is essentially a Buyid vassal. The Abbasids of the 900s where truly an example of an even weaker Ottomans; surrounded by enemies. On its east the Buyids, south Qarmatians, west Fatimids and north Byzantium. They also had suffered from an extremely brutal series of wars against the Zanj, Khawarij, Saffarids and Tulunids.
 
Well, that's new to me. Please elaborate.

I hold the theory of perpetual Islamic Golden Age per say. Or simply, there was no period in the Abbasid where Islam was some grand beacon as compared to following periods. It is my view that Islam remained intellectually powerful and sophisticated afterwards and infact, most periods following the Abbasid where far more innovative than the Abbasids. Especially when it comes to intellectual or artistic growth that does not lead to negative side effects. We see the effect of the Abbasid throne had on Iraq, that of destruction due to the scientific racism and intolerance of a massively diverse area. Abbasid powers mismanaged what the Umayyads built by force of arms and that is no golden age.
 
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