What if the Magyars converted to Judaism by the Khazars?

Deleted member 1487

What if the Khazars converted the Magyars to Judaism before the Magyars crossed the Carpathians?

They would likely be wiped out in a crusade or forcibly converted to Christianity later. I don't think they're going to last long raiding Europe without retaliation and IIRC they were converted to Christianity as a mark of their submission when defeated at Lechfeld. Had they not done that I think they would have been wiped out later by a papal sanctioned crusade.
 
The one effect this might be if the Magyars were wiped out would be that Pannonia could be populated by the Bulgars. Alternatively, we could have three Magyars split off with one converted to Judaism, one settling in Pannonia (OTL Hungary) and one settling in the Volga region, similar to the Bulgars.
 
I seem to remember reading that the Khazars only converted to Judaism, to avoid converting to Christianity or Islam (thus angering their neighbours, Constantinople, Kiev or the Muslim Caliphates); as well, it was mostly only the Upper class Khazars that converted. The rest of their population was primarily Muslim, or followers of Tengrism.

If the Magyars DID convert to Judaism, I would think it would mostly be the upper echelons of their society that did, just like with the Khazars; the rest of the population would worship traditional faiths, and then likely would convert to Catholicism, as the OTL Hungarians (Magyars) did.

It could be interesting; maybe the Magyars that converted to Judaism would convert to Catholicism later on, or maybe they won't. That could possibly lead to a split in Magyar society, possibly leading to a 'purge' of those elements in their society that are connected to Judaism.

Anyway, that's just my two cents.
 
Even among the Khazars, the proportion that was Jewish or converted to Judaism tended to among the ruling and merchant classes.

OTL, some of the Magyar tribes were under Khazar influence and rule. There may have been some conversions. However, it obviously wasn't significant enough to last by the time the Magyars made it to the Pannonian basin.

The Khazar state was a mixed state of both urban and less sedentary peoples. I tend to believe that the Magyars of Khazaria were the latter.
It stands to reason that Jewish conversions tended to be among the urbanized members of the Khazaria. Although steppe people conversions to monotheistic religions is known, it tended to create very syncretic religions. Tengrilism and Jewish mix, anyone? ;) Tribal adherance to universal religions also tended to be both ephemeral and the changes out of political convenience.
Which is probably why there weren't Jewish tribal Magyars in Hungary.

I don't see repression of the Magyars simply because they were in part Jewish anymore than the Khazar state was largely destroyed by the Rus prince Sviatislav, because the Khazars were Jewish (it was trade and territorial competition that led to the Kievan expedition).
 
Among the Kabars, a Khazars group that had joined the Magyars in their migration to the west, there were some of Jewish faith (specifically, there's an inscription mentioning a Karaite Kabar indivdual).
Arthur Koestler has speculated at length on this, although his conclusions are not on very firm grounds (let alone probably outdated).

However, a more generally widespread conversion is possible, but might be reversed later on anyway.
 
Among the Kabars, a Khazars group that had joined the Magyars in their migration to the west, there were some of Jewish faith (specifically, there's an inscription mentioning a Karaite Kabar indivdual).
Arthur Koestler has speculated at length on this, although his conclusions are not on very firm grounds (let alone probably outdated).

However, a more generally widespread conversion is possible, but might be reversed later on anyway.

Koestler, a brilliant writer (Darkness at Noon), had some very peculiar ideas regarding the Khazars that aren't backed up by recent scholarship (let alone the scholarship in his day).

Your conclusion is quite possible.
 
Koestler, a brilliant writer (Darkness at Noon), had some very peculiar ideas regarding the Khazars that aren't backed up by recent scholarship (let alone the scholarship in his day).

Your conclusion is quite possible.

Yes, his ideas are not exactly uncontroversial to say the least (is there enough genetic evidence gathered by now about it? ast time check, it seemed to be inconclusive), although he managed to build quite an interesting case. However, there appear to have been people of Jewish faith in the early Magyar migration, regardless of his wider speculation on the point (that he admits to be speculation, to be fair).
 
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