What if the French Revolution never happened? | Fraternité en Rébellion
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CHAP 2 PART 2 - The Germanic States: The History Of The Holy Roman Empire And Her States [II]
The Germanic States
And The History Of The Holy Roman Empire
Part 2
The Duchy of Anhalt
A Brief History
Anhalt has in modern times been but a footnote within the intricate realm of the HRE. As the Nine Years’ War waged across the continents in the 1820s and Prussia went up in revolutionary flames in 1878 on their eastern border, Anhalt stood as a proud though rather unnoteworthy duchy. The last direct possession of the House of Ascania, which once ruled all the way to the rugged cold of Russia under Catherine the Great, Anhalt began the nineteenth century under Duke Frederick I who would die in 1904 of a stroke, leaving his son Friedrich II as the new prince of Anhalt.
A popular and well-cultured man, Friedrich II, despite all the chaos and confusion in HRE at the time, did well and throughout the entirety of his reign Anhalt had a strong economy, content peasantry, and a renowned court theatre known across the entirety of Europe. Even as the revolutionary fervor of Prussia and its expansionism eyed their territory, Anhalt stood strong, and when Friedrich II would die without a son at the age of sixty-one he left the kingdom in the capable hands of his younger brother Prince Eduard.
At least, that is what had been planned. Prince Eduard died only a few months into his reign, leaving his seventeen years old son Joachim under the regency of Prince Aribert, his uncle. The regency was to last only a few months until Joachim turned eighteen and was expected to be rather uneventful. Unfortunately for the ruling family, Prince Aribert was at the center of a major scandal regarding his often rumored homosexuality, creating a huge amount of mistrust from the previously supportive nobility.
When Joachim became Prince of Anhalt he was already facing challenges as the economy was faltering and his uncle had created quite a large political mess for him to clean up. Instead of rising to the occasion as his other uncle Prince Frederick II had done, Prince Joachim instead brought about shame to the House of Ascania, as his actions only worsened the economic situation and his refusal to reform only brought about anger, both among the peasantry and the intellectuals. By the time of 1933, Joachim had run the country into the ground and anger was piling up. As time progresses, the chance of that anger exploding into popular fury is only increasing...
A Shot in the Crowd
In 1933, Anhalt is in a difficult, though not impossible situation. Joachim, despite faring poorly as a ruler so far, still has some opportunity to reform and revitalize the historically great House of Ascania and the Duchy of Anhalt as well. The prospects of reform seem good, up until the month of June. As Prince Joachim travels on horseback through the capital of Dessau, the silence of the morning air is shattered abruptly. There is a shot in the crowd. As it rings through the air, confusion engulfs the area. The young Freieist responsible for the gunfire is quickly pinned to the ground by the mounted police, but it is too late. Prince Joachim lays dying on the cobbled streets of his own capital, the shot having torn directly through his heart. As Joachim died, little did he know of the hell about to engulf his erstwhile insignificant duchy. Without a son, his brother Prince Eugen Friedrich quickly claims the throne.
Shortly after being crowned the new Prince of Anhalt, the revolution which his family has fought so hard to prevent finally occurs. Freieists, inspired by their comrade in Dessau and backed by the Prussians, rise up across the eastern fields of Anhalt, ready to fight. In order to prevent even more Prussian expansionism, the Austrians almost immediately send support in the name of the status quo. Things are looking good for Prince Eugen, as his loyalist forces outnumber the Prussian-backed republican insurgents.
That is not to last for long however, as his brother Prince Wolfgang, believing his kin unfit for rule, claims the throne. Backed by the Elector of Hannover, Wolfgang seizes the westernmost portions of Anhalt. A last-ditch diplomatic effort to salvage peace is attempted within the halls of Nuremberg, but the dense jungle of bureaucracy and factionalism there makes such action impossible. The Anhalt Crisis has begun.
The Anhalt Crisis
The first military confrontation within the HRE in nearly a decade has begun. Three factions within the small princedom now vie for rule. As support from their respective backers flows in, the crisis starts. Outdated doctrines from times past clash against industrially stamped modern weapons. With the innocent people of the princedom fleeing the carnage and destruction, the new and old order fight for the first time since the Saxon clashes of the 1910s. The entire HRE is horrified at the pile of bodies and rain of steel coming from the princedom, as it is realized for the first time that the doctrines of times past are no longer adequate to this new age. In the end though, there will be a breakthrough.
Whether Prince Eugen holds out long enough in the center of the duchy, Wolfgang and his army crash through the gates of Dessau, or the Freieist mobs overwhelm both, the small but destructive civil war will be finished in all likelihood by Fall of that year; the HRE will never be the same again. In the wake of the Anhalt conflict, they all will prepare for war or their own mounting domestic unrest. However, this matters little for whoever emerges victorious in Anhalt, as they must rebuild.
The Freieists would likely be absorbed into Prussia, Eugen shall keep the status quo, while Wolfgang will prove that Hannover is a legitimate contender to the imperial crown. However, this is all foreign policy, and the population of Anhalt cares little for that at this point. German has fought against German and brother against brother yet again, and as fathers bury their sons, Anhalt mourns their dead. Thus ends the Anhalt Crisis, heralding a new age of uncertainty for the HRE.
The Electorate of Saxony
Leading Up
Long ago Saxony was a peaceful land. As Austrians and Prussians fought in the plains of Germany and Poland, Saxony was there watching with about the same interest as the rest of the neutral nations in the HRE at the time. When the Prussian eagle was finally slain and divided up between the victors, little did the population of Saxony know that only a century later it would be reborn, and that it would be laying its eyes on their territory. In the 1830s, as a deterrent against Prussian expansionism at the time, the Austrians realigned the borders of much of HRE as a part of a new program called the “Mediatization''.
Saxony benefited heavily from this as they became one of the strongest of the HRE states, but that fortune would soon turn. All was quiet along the streets of Dresden for the majority of the 19th century as the electors came and went without mattering much. That changed with the Austro-Prussian war of 1867 to 1868 and its side effects. Saxony sided with the Austrians against the ever-present Prussian threat and, together with their allies, beat back the Prussians, thus winning the war. The years of 1868 to 1878 would be the last decade of status quo for Saxony and it would end with frantic messages from Berlin. The Prussian Revolution had started and citizens of the former kingdom were starting to flee the guillotine en masse towards the borders of all neighboring states.
This included at the time an unnoteworthy teenager named Theodor Bormann, who would end up escaping to the Northern regions of Saxony. A massive refugee crisis had just occurred and the electorate, although accepting of the newfound population, found itself harboring a massive amount of people whose ideology was best described as “anti-republican” in focus. A violent anti-Freieist bias was starting to be developed in Saxony, though few at the time understood how far this would go. Saxony and its many new found citizens spent the next twenty-two years until 1900 in much the way they always had but with the notable exception of the eagle peering at them now gone. It was just at this point however that the talons had yet to land.
The Betrayal
Saxony began the new century under King George of House Wettin in relative peace and prosperity even as tensions simmered. Liberal agitation was increasing in the north and the radically anti-Freieist refugees from Prussia were already taking liberties in “reeducating” them. The street brawls that were starting to pick up only pushed others farther and farther towards radicalism, while also encouraging the conservative elements to further escalation.
When King George died in 1904 leaving his son Frederick III as King of Saxony the situation in many of the Northern towns had gotten to the point where street brawls had simply become a way of life, as your political ideology in some ways decided which side of town you lived in, all the while repbulican Prussia regained its strength and began funding the most radical of the Freieist groups. Yet the worrying decade of the 1900s would prove comparatively benign compared to the fury in the 1910s. The decade started normally as Frederick III was trying to quench the radical republican and conservative agitation much as he had been attempting his entire reign, until halfway through the decade in 1915 phone calls started to come in from the north of the electorate.
The recent murder of two well-known Freieist in the region had set off a political firestorm and, in a similar note to 1878, a Freieist revolt had started in the north. Things were looking poorly as the anti-Freieist militias that had trained for so many years were crushed by the Freieist radicals, while the poorly funded Royal Saxon Army was barely able to mobilize a few understrength and under-equipped divisions. Then disaster struck: Prussia, supposedly in the name of the revolution, intervened and for two long weeks no one came to aid Saxony. No men, no guns, no help. The dreaded Freieist reign of terror made its way across the north and nearly reached the heartland of the electorate before Austria tabled a motion in Nuremberg and the rest of the HRE intervened, forcing a ceasefire.
The rump “Sister Republic of Saxony” was set up in the areas secured by the revolt, only for it to be quickly absorbed as another department of the Prussian Republic. In the midst of all this, Frederick III and his reign effectively collapsed as political chaos engulfed the entire country. Much of the northern population, out of which many had already been forced from their homes once before in 1878, were now evacuated to the south. Yet that mattered little at the time, as factions vied for power in the political vacuum of Dresden.
Only one year after, the commander of the nationalist branch of the anti-Freieist militias, Oskar Hergt, launched the infamous March on Dresden in 1916, thus occupying the city and much of the surrounding countryside, before forcing Frederick III to install him as the new Chancellor of Saxony. A complete upheaval of Saxon life then came as militarization and nationalist parades gained traction throughout the electorate, in opposition to both the Austrian betrayers and Prussian savages. However, this was just the start as a new age for Saxony had begun in earnest.
A Hermit Kingdom
Within only seventeen years of his appointment as chancellor, Oskar had effectively made himself the uncontested dictator of Saxony through a drastic reduction in royal power and the employment of his own loyal army of nationalist militias, which he integrated into the government itself. All foreign based companies and properties were nationalized into the state and, although still a part of the HRE, similarly to their rival Prussia they stayed out of all non-essential affairs. But something else had also begun to grow within the electorate: a general aspiration for a unified German state.
Soon after his country's defeat by the Prussians, Oskar began to theorize that the only way to truly defeat Freieism and the radicals as a whole was to unify all of Germany against them. Whether this means under a single government or in a coalition matters little to Oskar, so long as republicanism is wiped out from the entirety of Europe. Yet the strength of Saxony’s resolve shall be tested. By 1933, factionalism has grown in Dresden. As the electorate's government has been split between different members of the original nationalist militias, their commanders and proteges have split upon minor differences in ideology instead of unifying under Oskar’s vision.
In response, Oskar can do nothing but try to calm down the inflamed tensions. The bureaucrats under the rising star Martin Bormann, militarists under Dietrich von Choltitz and finally the hardliners of Otto Georg Thierack all vie for power, all while Oskar tries to keep their focus on the Prussian Freieists instead of on each other. As the rats all scurry about, the newly crowned Elector of Saxony Georg intently watches in the hopes of reclaiming his family's honor and true rulership over the electorate. Now divided once again, it is yet to be seen whether Saxony will be able to unify Germany under the banner of nationalism and in opposition to the Freieist scourge of Prussia, or if they will fall under the heavy weight of factionalism and infighting. The world is watching the fields of Germania and Saxony shall surely be in the spotlight.
Electorate of Bavaria
The Aspiring Power
The Electorate of Bavaria is Vienna’s favourite child, in spite of older fluctuating relations. A loyal, catholic member of the HRE, Bavaria is one of the main beneficiaries of continued Austrian influence over the Empire. If the Austrians will ever consider sponsoring German unification with a national discourse, they are likely to look to Bavaria for a stable and dependable junior partner. However, that is just a faraway possibility at the moment, as Bavaria enters a tumultuous 1933.
Throughout the 18th century, Bavaria was one of the first European states to experience with enlightened absolutism, especially through its prince-elector Maximilian III Joseph (1745–1777). A man of the Enlightenment, he did much to encourage agriculture, industries and the exploitation of the mineral wealth of the country; he founded the Academy of Sciences at Munich, and abolished the Jesuit religious censorship of the press, a very controversial move at the time. At the same time however, the elector signed more death sentences than any of his predecessors ever had, signalling that no matter how enlightened his rule was, it also remained thoroughly absolute. Nevertheless, the economic and social progress of Bavaria during his reign earned him the nickname of “Max the much beloved” from the people.
Sadly for the Electorate, the rule of Karl Theodor (1777-1799) undid most of Maximilian III’s legacy. The enlightened internal policy of his predecessor was abandoned. The funds of the suppressed clerical monopolies, which Maximilian Joseph had destined for the reform of the educational system of the country, were instead used to endow a province of the knights of St John of Jerusalem, for the purpose of combating the enemies of the faith. The government was increasingly under the influence of the church, being inspired by the most dogmatic clericalism, which culminated in the attempt to withdraw the Bavarian bishops from the jurisdiction of the HRE’s institutions and place them directly under the authority of the Pope. As Bavaria entered the 19th century, its intellectual and social condition remained close to that of the Middle Ages.
This duality of the Electorate’s political and ideological outlook would become defining for Bavaria. Enlightened and reformist princes would alternate with regimes characterised by the strongest reactionarism. The first 2 decades of the 19th century would be rather uneventful for Bavaria, as its new prince Maximilian Joseph sought to redress the imbalances created by his predecessor. As the 9 Years’ War started ravaging Central Europe, Bavaria pledged its support to Austria in its struggle against Prussia. Initially, it seemed that the Austrian and combined HRE troops would simply overwhelm the Prussian forces with their numerical superiority.
However, the Prussians formed a small detachment, led by Clausewitz, which would be broken off to combine Prussian garrisons and detachments into a new western army to check the Bavarian reinforcements. It was in charge of this army that Clausewitz’ strategic and tactical genius finally became apparent. His pair of early summer victories over Bavaria in 1822 kept any military support from crossing the Isar, let alone reaching Vienna. When Clausewitz marched triumphantly into Munchen that July, it had the added impact of convincing any other Anti-Prussian forces inside the HRE from supporting the apparently failing Austrian cause. Bavaria would only be relieved from enemy occupation much later in the war in 1826, and with the help of French, not Austrian troops. Afterwards, the reformed Bavarian army would contribute sizeable forces to the war effort, assisting the French armies under Grouchy in their German campaigns against Prussia.
Accepting the Doppeladler
As the 9 Years’ War was coming to an end and the Quadruple Alliance of France and Austria had finally seized the day, it seemed as though Bavaria was increasingly favouring diplomacy with France to the detriment of Vienna. Bavaria’s first minister, Maximilian von Montgelas, was a known francophile and likely contributed to this diplomatic evolution. To his disappointment however, the HRE mediatisation (1832) that followed the 9 Years’ War reaffirmed Austria’s primacy in Bavarian affairs. Montgelas was sacked and Bavaria’s short-lived initiative at diplomatic double-play ended. Territorially, Bavaria benefitted from the Mediatisation, having almost doubled its core territory, but losing its Rhineland-Palatinate holdings. Perhaps as punishment for attempting to leave Austria’s orbit, the Kaiser maintained the independence of the Free City of Nurnberg and elevated it to special rank, reinstating the old tradition of holding the HRE’s Reichsrat there.
From 1825 until his death in 1868, Bavaria was ruled by prince-elector Ludwig I. He presided over a period of renewal and progress for Bavaria, as he acquiesced to Austria’s pretensions of hegemony and focused on culture, the fine arts, and bringing the Industrial Revolution to Bavaria. In 1835, the Bavarian Ludwigseisenbahn was the first railway to be built and enter service in the German space, connecting Nurnberg, Ingolstadt, Augsburg and finally the capital, Munchen. Factories started sprawling around Munchen and special economic arrangements were made with Nurnberg to ensure Bavaria’s primacy in its market. Within the Zollverein, the HRE’s Economic Union, Bavaria quickly became the 3rd largest economy, albeit at a great distance from the two great powers, Austria and Prussia. Relations with France remained generally friendly, as the Franco-Austrian alliance of the 9 Years’ War had been formalised into a permanent pact to safeguard against Prussian expansionism and British interference in European affairs. In 1848, the Bavarian Royal Army sent a small contingent to assist Austria against Kossuth’s Hungarian insurrection. Bavaria once again assisted Austria militarily in 1867, when the Austro-Prussian War began. Bavarian troops acquitted themselves well generally, but were on numerous occasions routed by numerically inferior Prussian formations.
Adapting to the New World
Having outlived his son, Maximilian II, Ludwig I was succeeded by his nephew Ludwig II. The new prince-elector quickly became notorious for his outlandish spending on grandiose architectural projects and sponsorship of the arts, at times even indulging heavily in the state treasury funds. Bavaria nevertheless continued developing economically, with it being a net beneficiary of Prussia’s constant downfall within the HRE. At the same time, seeing how already for two generations of rulers Bavaria had stopped attempting to distance itself from Austrian influence, Vienna became increasingly friendly towards the electorate; by the end of the 19th century it had developed an unofficial “most favoured” status towards Bavaria, with many economic and military links being established. In terms of its politics, as with the rest of the HRE, the 1878 Prussian Revolution had strong reverberations in Munchen and throughout Bavaria. Prince Ludwig II outright banned Freieist and other Illuminist clubs from operating and deemed their literature illegal on the electorate’s territory.
This was a heavy blow to Bavarian liberalism, which had one of the earliest foundations within the German space. Nevertheless, the ban did not kill those currents; it only forced them to go underground. The Illuminati, one of the oldest such secret societies in Bavaria, would go on to become more influential both within the electorate and in Germany in general. Their proposed political philosophy has been termed “Minervism”, after the Owl of Minerva which they chose as their symbol. Among others, they call for a radical separation of church and state, advocating the total declericalization of the nation. They see organized religion and its influence on the state as the primary enemy of modernity, the revolution, and democracy. For the sake of the revolution, they argue, a Cult of Reason should be introduced, replacing old religions and the institutions of the Ancien Regime, and thus bring about a true enlightened society.
However, for each action there is a reaction. Capitalising on the panic created by the Prussian Revolution and the subsequent Terrorherrschaft of the 1880s, the clerical institutions and absolutist proponents of Bavaria once again rallied to exert their influence over the electorate. The “Ultramontanist” faction, calling for total alignment with the Holy See, greatly strengthened its power by riding the wave of consternation towards Prussia’s dismantling of its churches, both Catholic and Protestant. Through aggressive information campaigns, any and all liberalism became equated with the strongest of Prussian radicalisms. Ludwig II finally took steps towards quenching their influence only when ecclesiastical authorities started threatening his own sovereignty. As a means of reigning them in, Ludwig re-legalised liberal associations and publications in 1888, but specifically excluded the Illuminati from the decree.
As Bavaria entered the 20th century, it had closed in the distance to Prussia in terms of economic power and influence in the HRE, being a close 3rd behind the radical republic. The 1878 Revolution threw Prussia into complete chaos, and it took it more than a decade after the end of the terror years for it to restabilize. In the meanwhile, Bavaria had continuously grown, thanks both to Prussia’s new status as a pariah in the HRE and Austria’s increasing support. The 1914 Freieist Uprising in Saxony prompted another wave of hysteria across the HRE, and newly-crowned prince Ludwig III re-issued the ban on all political clubs and “radical” publications. Under strongly-worded Austrian “recommendations”, this ban has remained in force up until 1933. This has prompted the emergence of numerous underground cells of republican groupings. Chief amongst them are the now-centuries old Illuminati, whose secrecy and intricate initiations have made them somewhat of a mythical existence; the Bavarian Freieists - the principal Freieist movement in the southern parts of the HRE, taking direct inspiration from their Prussian counterparts, and lastly the Bavarian Communists, the smallest of the groups but constantly growing, not least thanks to the support coming from Liebknecht’s Socialist Party in Prussia.
National Future or Regional Retrenchment?
Finally, one more important issue is looming above Bavaria as it enters 1933: pan-German sentiment is becoming widespread across the space of the HRE, and there are increasing calls from across the political spectre for the creation of a German nation-state. In Bavaria, this phenomenon has been slightly less pronounced than in the other fiefdoms of the Empire, and definitely not as strong or approved-of as in revolutionary Prussia.
However, in the eyes of Vienna, the relationship with Bavaria has recently become a lot more important. Some commentators believe that Austria intends to “groom” the Electorate of Bavaria into a potential leader of a German national federation; a German nation led by a friendly, Catholic and monarchical regime. The situation in the field is rather different, however. Many in Bavaria are still apathetic towards the cause of pan-Germanism, as they are one of the more well-off states of the HRE and would rather remain so. At the same time, Bavaria has a strong regional identity and long history of independence. The future of Bavaria is at a crossroads: will it continue on the path of status quo, hoping that the HRE and the monarchic order will endure? Or will it embrace the doctrines of the new age, thus radically changing its identity?
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First off, France isn't on par navally with Britain. It maintains a naval parity thanks to the Spanish armada Second the indurstrial revolutionin france was slowed down because of the reliance on the agrarian economy and the devastating napoleonic wars. Since the 9YW is much kinder to France and because the crown wants to industrialise and because France has more colonies it is not impossible for France to be more industrialised in this timeline .
In this timeline, they would gain these borders in the HRE mediatisation after the Nine Years War, where Austria rearranged and restructured the borders of many of the states in the HRE. However, we're looking into a possible change in borders to set it apart from the post-Napoleonic borders.
If "wanting to industrialize" was all it took, there would be industrial power houses all over Africa. And those countries often had dictators with unrestrained power, not archaic constitutional systems that hamstrung the monarch like ancien regime France. And many countries struggle to effectively industrialize even when there are many examples to copy. France here would be trying to do it as the pioneer!
And to believe the number of colonies you have drives the level of industrialization just shows you have no understanding of development economics. Colonial trade was a tiny fraction of economic activity - industrialization in this period is driven overwhelmingly by the internal market. Ancien Regime France does not have one as it is a patchwork of different legal systems and internal trade barriers. France in OTL struggled to industrialize even after much needed Napoleonic reforms. Here it would be even worse off.
As for naval power, the idea Spain would be willing to endlessly use its navy to make France the pre-eminent global power is crazy and completely ahistorical. They didn't even want Corsica falling into French hands.
Our PoD is 1776. By the time of the 9 Years War France has been under a completely new, and reforming administration for nearly fifty years. Were they as rapid as Napoleon's? No. But this time they had a lot more time. Internally improved, France here is able to directly compete with the British industrially. I'll leave the details of the manner to our France dev when he gets on (I'm the British Dev). France has the chance to build a much more efficient fleet leading up to 1830, and although the Spanish fleet assists, it is primarily the French fleet that manages to defeat a major portion of the Royal Navy at the 2nd Chesapeake in very favorable circumstances. Following that very significant victory the Franco-Spanish are able to contest the seas on equal terms as the Royal Navy, which is enough to significantly disrupt the British war effort.
A) The PoD is 1776. By the beginning of the 9 Years War in 1821 France has been under a new, actively reforming administration. Details of that can come from our France dev, recommend you hit our discord for the most specific answers. In summary, they are more than capable of building an efficient navy by the time of the 2nd Chesapeake in 1825
B) France doesn't win in North America, they get it in the peace deal
C) The 9 Years War becomes Britain/Prussia/Sweden/Ottomans vs. France/Spain/Austria/Russia/USA. The Ottomans collapse quickly, and by 1827 it is Britain vs. the world.
D) The reason New England is annexed is because of the change of French king - specifically the fact that the Americans caused the war, and threatened to leave on a separate peace in 1825 if their demands to purchase Luisiana from Spain weren't agreed to (they were). As a result, the United States is left out of the 1830 peace treaty where Canada is given to France. Left alone, against an angry British Empire which has only recently raised over 100k troops to defend against possible French invasion....and the USA falls completely. Thereafter, the British seek to get recompense for their defeats and reparations toward France from the USA.
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So less time than the Habsburg Empire had under the reformist monarchs of Maria Theresa, Joseph II and Leopold II then? Did that somehow catapult Vienna into being the world's leading industrial power? No, because having diligent, thoughtful reformers at the top is, while important, insufficient on it's own to develop an ideal system. Not only do you need to get just the right policies (something very hard to do when no-one knows the industrialization formula yet), you also need to navigate and compromise with entrenched ideological and vested interests at the central and local levels. You can't just magic wand this away. And even once you get the right system up, you need then decades of time to achieve literacy gains, capital accumulation, etc.
Internally improved? France needs comprehensive overhaul of its whole setup to even get to a constitutional and fiscal system as conducive to industrialization as Britain had in 1689. Without some sort of radical break, equivalent to the French Revolution or the Wars of the Three Kingdoms, that seems impossible. And then Britain already has 100 years of improvement under that system under its belt that France would just be beginning.
Ok great. France had much of its fleet demolished in the Seven Years War. You say it both rebuilt this fleet and went beyond to catch up with the British. Where did the money come from to do this? It was already in financial crisis from the American intervention and decades of poor management, so the additional noble taxes are only going to get them out of this hole. Plus presumably you need vast funds to implement a system of education throughout France to achieve the literacy needed to support industrialization. That is after freeing up the peasantry via the abolition of feudalism - I assume there is some compensation for the nobility here, given it was done everywhere else in Europe and likely sees a noble revolt if not done. Then there is the loss of tariff revenue if you are abandoning the internal tariff barriers needed to achieve an internal single market, so that needs to be paid for somehow. Plus they still have their army they need to pay for, which was apparently strong enough to smash the Prussians. How the hell is all this afforded?
Then, once you have built your fleet, you need skilled sailors to man them, presumably with combat experience if you want to compete with the Brits. Where did the Frenchmen get the necessary experience? Post-7YW France does not have the commercial links that Britain does to achieve a similarly large merchant navy.
If you want to post a timeline here, you will get questions here. If you are not wanting to justify your answers here people will reasonably conclude you don't have good ones. Other forums are not filled with anywhere near the expertise as has been gathered here.
Without the Revolutionary interruption, peace negotiations would follow a similar basis to OTL 1700s, with one territory handed back in exchange for one kept by the victorious power. Which is the territory handed back to the British? The Canadiens also felt completely betrayed by the French after the Peace of Paris and then prospered under the representative governance provided by the British. Are you suggesting they just peacefully accept the restoration of the French monarchy? The rest of Canada is also substantially settled by fiercely patriotic United Empire Loyalists. France is set for a guerilla warfare campaign that they do not have a base to project power to.
After losing the American Revolutionary War, Britain learned the lesson of needing allies. Why on Earth would it allow itself to get into a war with four of the five European powers? Why would it commit to defending the Ottomans against both Austria and Russia? Why would the USA ally with an absolutist monarchy given its strong preference against entangling alliances?
Huh?!? Why does the USA fall apart? How on Earth does New England get subjugated? Anglo-America could defeat a major European power with its 1770s population. With its 1830 population it would curb stomp anyone interfering on it's own turf. This is complete alien space bats.
Hi, one of the devs for France sent me a response, please have a thorough read through. Thanks.
ECONOMY
And yet we had the Physiocrats and even before Colbert had some ideas about this. Of course industrialization formula wasn’t well known in France. But you are making sound like they were straight up morrons who had no idea about economic policies which is completely false. The industry is something that exists within France, take the magnificent exemple of the Christophe Oberkampf’s industry. The Jennies were first used in the 1790’s which is late but still here. France is definitely not unaware of industrialization and it’s something that was considered and tried during the 18th while not being a big thing yet.
Moreover France high population is a big plus in terms of production. This is what allowed them to be competitive in the 18th century and to maintain a dynamic during the 19th century. It is interesting to imagine a France with more manpower. With a more stable situation as well, industrialization could come a bit sooner and the bigger population could fit to the industrialization needs of workers for sure.
Don’t forget as well France resources in terms of wood, iron and many others that make them able to produce a lot by themselves without being too much dependent from importations. Moreover France is a center of Europe for trades even if it has been diminished by overseas trades, it still does have an impact in terms of trader through the land or linked to the Mediterranean Sea and the Atlantic.
Even though France doesn’t have a Central Bank nor an efficient fiscal system, it does possess somewhat of a huge administration that is able to coordinate and make some kind of census with cooperation of the Church for instance. This means that France can with time instate reforms more or less efficiently. It had the potential to evolve and integrate it. Bank of France was in OTL founded in 1800, but without French Revolution, are we so sure that it would have been postponed or postponed by far ?
NAVY
Production capacity of France are existent, with many Arsenaux built mostly in ports, the State had a large control over production of military ships. France proved to make limited but efficient rearmament under Louis XVI. Even though France was 1:2 in terms of ships against the UK, they still manage to contest british hegemony relatively efficiently on the seas during the Franco-British War (1778-1783) in which they had rebuild a navy. Moreover they did the same during revolution wars which imply they had the means to produce ships. Of course there were some restrictions lift up from revolution like debts or the funds made on the nobility wealth. But in the absolute, France had a certain capacity. They weren’t not as incompetent as you stated. The officiers were from nobility and it was something transmitted from fathers to sons which means basically they had huge formations. The naval officers were experimented and the wars they had gave they experiences as well. Moreover France always had through the 19th century innovative engineers that made the French Navy always at a similar state of modernization as the British one. (It’s only with the IIIrd Republic that a lack of modernity arrived, the Navy being judged as useless). France wouldn’t have been to have the same number of ships of course (between 1776 and 1821) but they have a good amount of time to rebuild a competitive one with a slightly more modernised Spanish fleet, this is not all set in stone.
THE SPANISH AFFAIR
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pacte_de_Famille
It was the 10+ years of careful steady reforms of the internal system that allowed france to avoid the OTL crisis. It wasn't impossible for France to avoid the revolution if the monarch in power was more set on his goals and less prone to sudden change of decisions. It was Louis XVI indecisiveness to stick to one decision that led to the cavalcade of events that would become the revolution. France isn't a pioneer in terms in industrialisation. Britain is still the first one to develop the first railways and factories. Which promts France to start industrialising after the 9YW. Furthermore France still has the numbers advantage, in a contrast to OTL where France after been bled dry after the revolutionary and the napoleonic wars. French internal economics wasn't the main problem which stopped the industrial revolution: British International economic domination, slow demographic burn and the political instability throughout the 19th century are also to blame.
ECONOMY
And yet we had the Physiocrats and even before Colbert had some ideas about this. Of course industrialization formula wasn’t well known in France. But you are making sound like they were straight up morrons who had no idea about economic policies which is completely false. The industry is something that exists within France, take the magnificent exemple of the Christophe Oberkampf’s industry. The Jennies were first used in the 1790’s which is late but still here. France is definitely not unaware of industrialization and it’s something that was considered and tried during the 18th while not being a big thing yet.
Moreover France high population is a big plus in terms of production. This is what allowed them to be competitive in the 18th century and to maintain a dynamic during the 19th century. It is interesting to imagine a France with more manpower. With a more stable situation as well, industrialization could come a bit sooner and the bigger population could fit to the industrialization needs of workers for sure.
Don’t forget as well France resources in terms of wood, iron and many others that make them able to produce a lot by themselves without being too much dependent from importations. Moreover France is a center of Europe for trades even if it has been diminished by overseas trades, it still does have an impact in terms of trader through the land or linked to the Mediterranean Sea and the Atlantic.
Even though France doesn’t have a Central Bank nor an efficient fiscal system, it does possess somewhat of a huge administration that is able to coordinate and make some kind of census with cooperation of the Church for instance. This means that France can with time instate reforms more or less efficiently. It had the potential to evolve and integrate it. Bank of France was in OTL founded in 1800, but without French Revolution, are we so sure that it would have been postponed or postponed by far ?
NAVY
Production capacity of France are existent, with many Arsenaux built mostly in ports, the State had a large control over production of military ships. France proved to make limited but efficient rearmament under Louis XVI. Even though France was 1:2 in terms of ships against the UK, they still manage to contest british hegemony relatively efficiently on the seas during the Franco-British War (1778-1783) in which they had rebuild a navy. Moreover they did the same during revolution wars which imply they had the means to produce ships. Of course there were some restrictions lift up from revolution like debts or the funds made on the nobility wealth. But in the absolute, France had a certain capacity. They weren’t not as incompetent as you stated. The officiers were from nobility and it was something transmitted from fathers to sons which means basically they had huge formations. The naval officers were experimented and the wars they had gave they experiences as well. Moreover France always had through the 19th century innovative engineers that made the French Navy always at a similar state of modernization as the British one. (It’s only with the IIIrd Republic that a lack of modernity arrived, the Navy being judged as useless). France wouldn’t have been to have the same number of ships of course (between 1776 and 1821) but they have a good amount of time to rebuild a competitive one with a slightly more modernised Spanish fleet, this is not all set in stone.
Irrelevant, France had the time to rebuild a fleet for the Franco-Brisith War (1778-1783) and even for the Revolution Wars.
The guy never said that.
Not only he isn’t considering the fact that Britain got hugely crippled after F-B War but he is also not considering that France was in a process of fiscal reforms through the century. Of course noble taxes wouldn’t have made France super powerful instantly but it surely would have helped because there were still many wealth in the noble hands.
Well, you technically have already an elite of economists and thinkers with engineers in France. Of course the workers needed that in order to work ? Bullshit. This is again irrelevant regarding the fact that France had an existent rate of literacy (30% among the general population, way higher in the elites).
How is it related first ? Second, serfdom has declined way before 1789. Moreover “feudalism” is a bit of an anachronism. We are talking about a nation-state with high centralised powers. Feudalism is kinda dead even if the tradition is still existent.
Just like anywhere else. Again IRRELEVANT. Decades ? Well I just got five decades freshly baked for you… is that enough ?
THE SPANISH AFFAIR
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pacte_de_Famille
Spain was France natural ally throughout the 18th century It even joined France during the revolutionaries wars despite the ideological differences (see the treaty of San Idelfonso of 1796) Spain doesn't use its armada to make France powerful, Spain uses its armada in order to counter the primary threat to it's colonies: the British Royal Navy. This was always the foreing policies of spain and is unlikely to change throughout the 19th century, especially as the Bourbon Anjou branch takes the French crown. Now the economic system Yes the economic system of the ancient regime was full of holes. However if Necker was given 10 years and protection from any conspiracies thanks to the monarch himself it is possible he would be able to get France out of debt (given his success during his 2 terms OTL). To emphasise this point: the reunion of the Estates General wasn't what saved France in this timeline, this would be ridiculous.
It was the 10+ years of careful steady reforms of the internal system that allowed france to avoid the OTL crisis. It wasn't impossible for France to avoid the revolution if the monarch in power was more set on his goals and less prone to sudden change of decisions. It was Louis XVI indecisiveness to stick to one decision that led to the cavalcade of events that would become the revolution. France isn't a pioneer in terms in industrialisation. Britain is still the first one to develop the first railways and factories. Which promts France to start industrialising after the 9YW. Furthermore France still has the numbers advantage, in a contrast to OTL where France after been bled dry after the revolutionary and the napoleonic wars. French internal economics wasn't the main problem which stopped the industrial revolution: British International economic domination, slow demographic burn and the political instability throughout the 19th century are also to blame.
Also worth keeping in mind, on the "USA falling apart" etc. etc., we haven't released the information here yet, so do stay tuned when we eventually post North America over here. Thanks!
CHAP 3 - The Hegemon of Europe: The Austrian Empire
The Hegemon of Europe
The History of the Austrian Empire
The Austrian Empire stands tall as the uncontested hegemon of Central Europe. The influence of Vienna extends from the plains and forests of Central and Southern Germany to the Balkans and the plains of western Ukraine. The past 150 years have been kind to the Habsburg Realm, which has gradually expanded, both in terms of territory and of its sphere of influence.
In line with the latest trends of the Enlightenment, Kaiser Joseph II (1765-1790) initiated the Austrian reforms towards enlightened absolutist rule. The year 1795 also saw the addition of West Galicia into the realm, as a result of the 3rd Partition of Poland. Through the continued pursuit of enlightened absolutism, his successor Franz II would inaugurate the Metternich-Bach era in the Empire. The Habsburg realm was centralized and reformed into a unitary Austrian Empire, local autonomies were scrapped, taxation was streamlined, the Church remained empowered. Austria rode into the 19th century as one of the great continental European powers.
That power would be further cemented by its victorious participation in the long and destructive 9 Years’ War (1821-1830/32). Allied with France, Spain and Russia, Austria managed to defend its Balkan territories from the Ottoman offensives and slowly battered Prussia into submission in the HRE, with help from its allies. The next decades saw Austria solidify its position as leader of the HRE, all to the dismay of Prussia. When evidence emerged that the Prussians were backing the rebellious Hungarians in the 1860s, Vienna used this as a pretext for escalation. In reality, they had been coveting the industrially-rich region of Silesia ever since the 9 Years’ War. The short Austro-Prussian War (1868-1870) ended in victory for Austria. The cost and destruction of the war sent the Kingdom of Prussia into total disarray, from which it never recovered. It also planted the early seeds of a German national identity. The war had been costly and bloody and made the Germans wary of their division, thus triggering a wave of German unity currents to prevent such wars from ever happening again.
Nevertheless, it was a profitable affair for Austria. They finally regained Silesia, lost to the Prussians in the early 18th century. They entrenched themselves as undisputed rulers of the HRE. They defeated and humiliated their old rival. In the domestic sphere, Vienna had to cope with the reverberations of its “Bloody Decade”, describing a period in which the Empire’s many nationalities claimed extended rights and were subsequently quelled by force. However, as the national movements were slowly put down, the Austrian Empire entered a period of prolonged prosperity, starting with the late 1880s.
In 1933, the Austrian Empire is a prosperous, powerful country, easily one of the world's leading great powers. In Europe, only France rivals its power and influence, and although lacking both a powerful navy and significant colonial possessions, Austria is nevertheless an economic powerhouse with a global presence. However, as new ideologies and doctrines spread across the Old Continent, the resilience of Vienna's enlightened absolutism shall be put to the test.
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CHAP 4 - The Italian Peninsula: The History of its Various States
The Italian Peninsula
And the History of its Various States
Genoa
The Democratic Republic of Genoa remains the only democracy on the Italian peninsula. However, the stability and legitimacy of the republic’s democratic institutions may be fading fast. From its formation during “the Troubles of 1862” with Alessandro de Stefanis as Doge, Stefanism has been cemented as the republic’s primary ideology. With the extreme corruption scandal of 1928 recently behind them, many populist and unorthodox political parties have been propulsed toward the front, promising change to the disillusioned populace.
The party that would see the most dramatic rise in popularity was the newly formed Populist-Liberal “Unity Party” under Eugenio Togliatti. The party is mainly composed of right-leaning Stefanists and institutionalists, together with highly corrupt Genoese nationalists.
It is believed that the reason for their dramatic victory was due to the rival political party, “The Action Party”, electing Guiseppe de Stefanis as their frontrunner; this action divided the party greatly along Actionist and Radicalist lines. Radicalist chose Giuseppe “Peppino” Garibaldi II to lead them.
Other organizations such as the new Christian-Labor party have gained considerable influence, and they intend to uphold Christian Unionism, Workers’ self-management and the establishment of a robust welfare system, alongside their ambivalent position towards Pan-Italianism. This party later formed a shaky coalition with the Theodemocratic Christian Federation, which shares most of its values. They are being led in the coalition by Bruno Buozzi.
Unity managed to hold the Doge’s Office, with Togliatti expertly maneuvering the halls of Parliament, making deals and securing support, with many wondering if he even really believes in his ideology at all. This has caused a surge in popularity for the Torch Movement, the nations’ nascent Luxist party led by Abdullah Marinetti, a Muslim half-Egyptian who emigrated to the country. A second-generation Luxist, he argues strongly for Italian unification, a centralized, secular and moderately anti-clerical state, along with a "Cult of the State", state-controlled unions, combined with some workers’ rights, corporatist economics, aggressive modernization and an overall deeply different philosophy.
The future of Genoese democracy seems unclear. However, the elections will surely be divisive and perhaps they will signal a decisive change in Genoese, Italian and even European politics.
The Papal States
The Holy See has seen a period of great change over the past century. The Catholic Church gradually reformed and modernized to fit into the changing world. These reforms would become stronger following the “Troubles of 1862” which rocked the Italian peninsula, on the background of the British and Genoese revolutions. The reforms of Pius VII which, among other things, emancipated the church’s Jewish population and permitted laypeople to serve in state offices, left many of the more conservative elements of the Catholic Church alienated. This alienation led Polish Mieczysław Halka Ledóchowski, better known as Pope Innocent XIV, to gain the Pontifical Seat. He would go on to undo whatever reforms the Papal States had hitherto introduced.
That, combined with his apparent detachment from the Italian populace of the Papal States made him greatly unpopular. Following this crackdown on freedoms, the cities of Ravenna and Bologna rose up in revolt in late 1890 and declared the short-lived “United Provinces of Italy”. The rebellion would be crushed within a year and Innocent XIV would go on to rule as a de facto Pontifical dictator until his death in 1902. Then followed a period of relative peace for 23 years, until the Second War of the Bucket kicked off in 1925 on its 600 year anniversary. Bolognese boys, raised by their parents with tales of Modenese treachery, would set multiple Modenese fields on fire.
A year later, Pope Benedict XV, a firm conservative and anti-modernist, would be elected, his election being the result of a recent resurgence of conservatives, who had recovered from Innocent's times. He would still prove willing to work with the State's institutions, and had a pretty light hand when dealing with dissent.
With the passing of Benedict XV in 1932, the cardinals stand divided between those that support democracy and those who believe in the supreme authority of the Pope. Who shall end up as the Lord’s earthly representative, only He Himself may know.
Sardinia-Piedmont
Sardinia-Piedmont has been in a fragile power balance between the king and the parliament since the 1862 revolutions. Power and representation is spread unequally between Sardinia and the continental holdings, with the majority of economic growth and industrial development situated along the continental Nice-Turin axis.
The only significant economic growth in Sardinia has taken place in its capital Cagliari, and aside from these territories Sardinia-Piedmont remains mostly agricultural. However, in 1911 Prince Emmanuel Ferdinand sought to model Cagliari in the vein of Monaco. He reconstructed Cagliari into a city of entertainment. Thus, he would start financing grandiose construction projects, casinos, hotels, and stimulating industries. This was combined with the birth of the "Corpus Separatum" of Cagliari, a special, tax-free zone, all with its own laws. Notably, it was the only part of Sardinia able to do so.
The island lost its distinct law code when its autonomy was suppressed in 1871, when the so-called "Fusione Perfetta" or "Perfect Fusion" was enacted, centralizing the Kingdom and imposing a single law code, one language (literary Italian), and one parliament. Most of Piedmont and Nice would embrace the reforms. Aosta, Savoy and the so called "Occitan Valleys" of Piedmont would reluctantly go along with it, but in doing so picked up the tendency of electing more regionally-minded MPs.
Sardinia would not support the change and would not take the beating lying down. They would form their own organization for the Parliament to go along the establishment Left-wing and Right-wing parties, The Sardinians, seeking increased autonomy for the island and fighting for its interests. More political parties, such as the moderate democratic coalition, “il Connubio” or “The Union”, would gain prominence following the rise of King Thomas Albert. The king, believing in his right to rule, would play the parliamentary factions against each other in order to further his absolutist aims. With these actions, the king grew steadily more unpopular.
However, he implemented some reforms for the good of the country. King Thomas would rule until his passing in 1924. He was succeeded by his son, Emmanuel Ferdinand. King Emmanuel has been immensely indecisive due to his irreconcilable beliefs of democracy and monarchical power simultaneously. Due to His Majesty’s perceived incompetence, there are many who seek to make him abdicate in favour of his younger brother, Philibert. The king himself has promised to deliver on that with a confirmation vote in February 1933.
Sardinia-Piedmont is heading face-first into a political crisis, with it becoming increasingly unclear who will take the reins of the nation.
Two Sicilies
The Kingdom of Two Sicilies technically comprises of two disparate kingdoms, Naples and Sicily, under a personal union. The kingdom operates on a three-parliament system: one for Sicily, one for Naples and one for the kingdom as a whole. Only the nobility and parts of the Neapolitan bourgeoise can vote and, due to any potential reform needing to go through the main parliament, and then one of the others, most reforms either die or end up severely watered down.
The years since 1868 have seen increased tension between the Neopolitans and Sicilians, as the latter consider that the Neapolitan nobility and the king are encroaching on their sovereignty. The kingdoms’ failures to modernize and reform culminated in the birth of the Sicilian Fasci in 1894, a Socialist and Christian movement very popular among the Sicilian peasants, which would develop and spread thanks to the collaboration with Socialist agitators and intellectuals, both from the Kingdom and elsewhere.
The Fasci have immense political influence in the Sicilian Parliament and government, as they hold more than a third of the seats. This, combined with the inability of Sicilian authorities to deal with the situation, as well as their refusal to let Neapolitans handle it, would lead to the Fasci living on, with multiple communes coming under their influence or outright control by the movement, most notably Siracusa, the "capital" of the movement. The movement would be split by the issue of support of the monarchy, leading to the rise of the Second-Generation Fasci, a revolutionary republican movement. The Kingdom of Two Sicilies also has its own Action Party, not dissimilar from the other Italian states, namely the Southern Action Party. Alongside the Actionists stands the People’s Party, who are theodemocratic populists.
In Naples, where the land reform has had some effect, the bourgeoisie would see its most consistent rise, which would create the first “proper” liberal party in the country, the moderate and reformist Royal Liberal Party (Partito Liberale Reale), with some Sicilians involved, most notably the radical-turned-royalist Francesco Crispi, who would emerge as one of the Party's leaders. Crispi, an “Arbëreshë”, or Italo-Albanian, would also establish the "Adriatic Cultural Community", a cultural association promoting brotherhood with the people on the other side of the Adriatic, namely Albanians and Greeks. This organization would become one of the mainstays of the Liberals, with many arguing for freedom for the Albanians and Greeks from the Ottomans, later known as "Adriaticism".
A major force in the Kingdom are its armed forces. Both the army and the navy, a source of pride for the kingdom since the reign of Ferdinand IV, reformed in the mid 19th century under Paolo Avitabile’s supervision, and have kept up with the times since. These forces have an interesting duality, in that most of the officer corps is dominated by the nobility, while the soldiers themselves are mostly peasants, as the armed forces are quite an attractive alternative when compared to working in the Latifundia. This has both led to many of the common soldiers being strong supporters of either the Actionists or the Populars, while the officers, mostly nobles, tend to be some kind of monarchists.
With Bourbon rule nearing its 200th year, the kingdom, between its few large cities and the overwhelmingly agrarian rest of the country, between revolutionary fervor and constant stagnation, between its radical rank-and-file and the royalist officer, is clearly at a crossroads. Between all this stands the young Queen Maria I, who recently rose to the throne after her father, the aging King Ferdinand Emmanuel, abdicated.
Not many know what to expect from the young queen, having spent her youth away from the spotlight, due to her not being originally supposed to inherit the throne. Being not only a woman, she was also not the first in line, only becoming the heir after two of her sisters lost their rights to the throne. She grew up between Naples and Palermo, and spent the last three years in Sicily. It is rumored that she has grown to really dislike the Sicilian nobility, partially because said nobility blocks most attempts at reform that could undermine their power. With the complicated situation that the kingdom is facing right now, nobody can say for sure who will end up on top.
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Russia's lore is still in the works, so unfortunately not as of now.
pls don't ban me
Monthly Donor
@FeR_Sam there is a thing that might interest you about Genoa.
the treaty of versailles in which Corsica was ceded had a section in which was stated that if genoa coul repay all the debts which caused to cede the island to the french, they could take it back. Basically the Island is a pawn in french hands
the treaty of versailles in which Corsica was ceded had a section in which was stated that if genoa coul repay all the debts which caused to cede the island to the french, they could take it back. Basically the Island is a pawn in french hands
The Leaders of the British Republic
And Their Biographies
And Their Biographies
George Orwell
Best known by the pseudonym ‘George Orwell’, Eric Arthur Blair began his literary career by writing dramatised nonfiction accounts of working class life in the British Republic and other Commonwealth Nations.
Ellen Wilkinson
In a country without female sufferage, the rise of a female member of parliament was an unexpected event. Against all odds, the member of the socialist movement secured the Parliamentary seat of Jarrow, and has advocated before parliament the inherent inequalities of capitalism and in favor of universal suffrage.
Neville Chamberlain
By the age of 39, Neville Chamberlain had unofficially entered the political game. He already owned and managed a shipbuilding company, Hoskins & Co., which he had purchased with assistance from his parents. On April 17th, 1908, Chamberlain made his famous “New Coalition” speech at a conference of investors in the naval business in London. Although it was just a short speech made over an evening’s tea, it was transcribed in full by an idle reporter at the conference, and was published the next day. The speech itself criticized the Burkists for breaking the Grand Coalition, and called for a reunion of the party with the Liberal Coalition Party. Chamberlain blamed the Burkists, not the Liberals, for concessions made to worker’s movements. He argued that if the Burkists had never broken the coalition, the Coalition would have had enough power to stand strong against ‘reactionary forces’. After this, Chamberlain made several other political speeches to reporters, mainly in support of the Liberal Coalition, still criticising them for lack of action or concessions made to Labour. Only a year later, Chamberlain would successfully stand for Birmingham City Council under the Grand Liberal Coalition Party. He would institute a town planning scheme alongside programs to reduce traffic accidents and drunk driving. His time in the City Council saw the majority of his programs a success, but his town planning scheme never panned out to its fullest extent. In 1918, Chamberlain was voted into the position of Member of Parliament for Birmingham Ladywood. He quickly rose up the ranks of the Liberal Coalition Party, his hardworking and flexible nature doing him wonders in the complexities of parliamentary politics. He eventually rose to the higher ranks of the party, and holds massive sway over the inner workings of the Coalition itself.
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Pretty sure France invaded the island in 1768 and owned it directly anyway
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