what if the Dutch Goverment after WWI had bought the German navy in the shipyard's

Germany Had over 6 Heavy Warships that were with in 2 years of being finished What if the Dutch had Bought these ships in Dec of 1918 .

How would the Allies react to the Dutch if they did this .

How might this change the Dutch navy deployment when WWII came about .
 
You would have to find out if those warships under construction were covered by the Armistice. If they were then the Dutch would be in trouble, tho its unlikely that the German government would sell them at that time. However, if the shipyards were approached directly than maybe.
 

MrP

Banned
The battleships Sachsen and Wuerttemberg, and the battlecruisers Mackensen, Prinz Eitel Friedrich, Graf Spee and Fuerst Bismarck, right? That seems ambitious for the Dutch. These are all expensive ships and IOTL the Dutch didn't even manage to acquire their planned pre-war force of nine 26,000 ton battleships, let alone contemplate ships in the 30-36,000 ton range.* I imagine the Germans would be keen to take on such contracts for desperately needed money, let alone the retention of expertise this would afford. I doubt the allies would be pleased to see Germany have the capability of seizing a half dozen modern capital ships in the event of increasing European tensions.

But the financial situation is critical. I just can't see the Dutch affording all these ships.

* Conway's notes that the Dutch didn't even manage to get through a limited programme for destroyers and cruisers submitted in 1921, nor a further reduced one in 1923.
 
Australia swooped in on some old USN ships and a bunch of F111s at the end of the Cold War, the Dutch could do the same in this instance. In the climate of post WW1 how much would a handful of incomplete German capital ships cost? As much as the rejected 1921 and '23 cruiser programmes? They could finish 2 or 3 and cannabilise and scrap the rest and get a capital ship sqn for the DEI on the cheap, if the pollies could be convinced that this was a never to be repeated opportunity. I think the Allies could even be pursuaded of it as it would get some powerful ships in the vicinity of Indochina and Malaya.
 
I thought about his posibility too. Short after the war the unfinished capital ships could be bought by a construction if it was scrap or a kind of lease construction were the needed know-how of engineers was included.
The could be purchased for a fraction of the cost, the price would be the completing of these vessels.
The pre-war battleship plan of nine ships was already reduced to 5. It was realised that it is not only a question of building and maintaining battleships but on a population of around 5 milion it will be a problem to find sufficient crew for this ships and the other vessels of the navy.
The battleships of the Mackensen class are close to the last designs of the fleetplan of 1912.
Let asume the hulls of the battle cruisers Mackensen, Graff Spee, Prinz Eitel and later the casco of Furst Bismarck were towed to Dutch shipyards. Anthony Fokker corssed the German, Dutch border as well with a train loaded with a couple of hundred war planes and a complete aircraft factory. So in the confusing times after the armistice and peace negotiations things were posible.
There would be some political turmoil but this would ease very fast, due to the problems it would give to finish these vessels.
Asume there was political will to purchase and finish these ships, even after some adjustments to the original design, it would give the Dutch fa fleet inbeiing, taken that the vessels were kept upto date and modernised on a regular base, it would provide the Dutch navy some big guns in the East Indies in 1942. The ships are slight inferiour to the Kongo's but would act as a political instrument to take the Dutch East Indies as a more serious partner for the Alies. The advantage of these ships would be more political than tactical.
 
What about the maintenance and crewing costs? Even if you manage to buy the "discount" battlewagons you'll still need to spend the money to keep them crewed, sevicable, and afloat, which is a far greater lifecycle cost than the initial investment even today. Could the Dutch afford to keep many or even any of these behemoths in working order long enough to even be a deterrent for the Japanese?
 

Markus

Banned
Let asume the hulls of the battle cruisers Mackensen, Graff Spee, Prinz Eitel and later the casco of Furst Bismarck were towed to Dutch shipyards. Anthony Fokker corssed the German, Dutch border as well with a train loaded with a couple of hundred war planes and a complete aircraft factory. So in the confusing times after the armistice and peace negotiations things were posible.

Ok, but sending a trainload or two of small aircraft is not the same as towing 30,000ton ships over the sea. Which happend to be controlled by the Entente. Complicating matters even more is the distance, one BC is at Wilhelmshaven, two at Hamburg, the fourth at Danzig.

Highly unlikely you can do this without the entente agreeing and while France and Belgium might have permitted the sale of the ships, the last thing the UK wanted to see was the poliferation of modern warships at a time most of it´s battleships were obsolescent and worn out.
 
The whole purchase does not have to take place in the twilight period of the armistice. It could also be done in 1920 or 1921, when the situation was slightly clearer.
True the British did not like to see the naval units of the German Empire scattered over the globe in service of doubtfull regimes, when their own units were worn down. On the other hand, would they mind if it was to reinforce the Dutch East Indian squadron, which consisted of over used slow coastal defence ships?
The Netherlands was not a realy doubtfull regime which had plans to play gun boat politics which could harm the British.
If there was the will, the Dutch could afford 3 to 4 of these type of ships. It could also crew them but this would mean an increase of Indonesian sailors, which should not mean problems.
 
The whole purchase does not have to take place in the twilight period of the armistice. It could also be done in 1920 or 1921, when the situation was slightly clearer.

The Dutch are buying hulls that have sat unattended and rusting on the stocks or at the pier side for nearly three years. Mackensen is clearly mentioned in the armistice according to Beyer, so its sale wouldn't go unnoticed by the British.

The Dutch are just throwing bad money into old hulls and that isn't getting them the machinery or weaponry. Do the Dutch even have the facilities for such large warships?
 
The Netherlands stayed neutral in the Great war. After the war there were proposals made to make again seriuos investments in the navy, not as ambitious as before the war but these were twarfed by strong pacifist beleaves large portion of the population.

Between 1912 and 1914 there were far cristalised plans to jump on the battleship train. It was clear to the politician of that time that the coastal defence ships were no match to the Japanes, which was seen since the late 1890ties as the potential enemy.
Prior to the Great war the atitude of the Dutch was that the Netherlands had to defend theirCrown Colony by it self. After the war this atitude was changed in a defalistic atitude that the Netherlands were too small and there for should complete depent on forreign help.
Note The Netherlands were a neutral nation and stayed that until may 1940. So who should help the Netherlands in case of a crisses? And if you as nation do'nt make any efford to defend your self who wanted to help you? These things were ignored after the great war.
 
I doubt that the Dutch could afford to complete 5 or 6 ships but 2 or 3 is more plausible for many reasons. The Dutch pollies may change their mind about defending the DEI if they can get the backbone of this defence for the next 20 years on the cheap and easy.
 

Markus

Banned
Note The Netherlands were a neutral nation and stayed that until may 1940. So who should help the Netherlands in case of a crisses? And if you as nation do'nt make any efford to defend your self who wanted to help you? These things were ignored after the great war.

No, an attack on the DEI also threatens the interests of the USA, France and the Commenwealth. So the Netherlands were not a part of an alliance, but not neutral in the sense of being without support in a crisis in the far east.
 
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