What if the 'Business Plot' had been offered to MacArthur?

Showed up because of the Hall of Infamy post about TheCrow. I'll take black tea, with honey. :)

@Avalon: I'd like some PESTO CRUST PIZZA!

But, regarding the topic, if Macarthur were offered command of the Business Plot, he'd have laughed in their faces and then reported them to the proper authorities.
 

pnyckqx

Banned
Oh you are just begging to be torn apart

First off, the pentagon vid shows an outline of a 747, as well as witness testimony confiming that it was the plane that hit the towers.

What happened to the victims then?

As well as that, OBL admitted to WTC in numerous videos.

The government had some idea of AQ plots, but not much.
i have serious doubts that the Solicitor General of the United States, Ted Olson, is going to sacrifice his wife Barbara on United Flight 77 just to maintain a facade.

Incidentally, Barbara Olson was a conservative political writer with the popularity of Ann Coulter before her death on flight 77. --She was pretty HOT too, former ballet dancer. :D
 

CalBear

Moderator
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Showed up because of the Hall of Infamy post about TheCrow. I'll take black tea, with honey. :)

@Avalon: I'd like some PESTO CRUST PIZZA!

But, regarding the topic, if Macarthur were offered command of the Business Plot, he'd have laughed in their faces and then reported them to the proper authorities.

You have to know that something is beyond the Pale for me to stand up for Dugout Doug.

:p
 
You have to know that something is beyond the Pale for me to stand up for Dugout Doug.

:p

Yep. Your posts were amusing, especially the one about his "famed withering glances." I'd imagine the following scenario:

Setting: An officer's bar

Plotter bearing message (referred to as P): Ah, good evening General. I have a proposal for you.

Macarthur (M): I'm listening.

P: We'd like you to help us overthrow the American government.

M: [Laughter] Hey guys, we have a comedian here! He wants me to overthrow the President!

[other officers laugh loudly]

M: Round of drinks here, on me!

P: No, I'm serious.

M: [withering glance] No, you're an idiot. Congratulations on screwing your own plot up.
 
I do hereby endorse Polish Eagle's selection in pizza as in good taste.:cool:


Now, I must note that we have been the victim of a hoax as no true supporters of British cultural imperialism would ever offer cookies, instead of biscuits...
 
I do hereby endorse Polish Eagle's selection in pizza as in good taste.:cool:


Now, I must note that we have been the victim of a hoax as no true supporters of British cultural imperialism would ever offer cookies, instead of biscuits...

They're just that insidious :D.
 
That he led the attack on the Bonus Army for no good reason is part of it.

The fact that he was given a Congressional Medal of Honor for &^%&ing up the defense of the Philippines is part of it.

That he destroyed Wainwright's career to preseve his reputation is part of it.

That he wasted American and Australian lives on a scale that should qualify him as a war criminal just so he could claim "I have returned" is part of it.

That he managed to take a clean victory in Korea and turn it into two years of bloodly stalemate is part of it.

That he did all of the above while being a smug #$$hole is part of it.

There are so many part of it that I could go on for days.

He is, IMO, the biggest screw-up in American military history this side of George B. McCellan despite being possibly the most brilliant SOB to ever wear the uniform, which is probably the worst part of it all. Had he simply lived up to his potential a couple hundred thousand American, Australian, Filippino, and Korean troops (whose lives he was responsible for) would have died in bed with their grandchildren around them instead of as kids in the mud of some Godforsaken hole.

Grrr...

Hmm always seems like the greatest fuck ups are the ones who had the most damned potential.
 
I do hereby endorse Polish Eagle's selection in pizza as in good taste.:cool:


Now, I must note that we have been the victim of a hoax as no true supporters of British cultural imperialism would ever offer cookies, instead of biscuits...

Oh, that's just the Yankee neighbourly influence talking again.

As to the original topic of the thread, the consensus is that General MacArthur, arrogant ass that he was, was no traitor. Quite the opposite in fact. Hell, there was even a few points in his career where he performed competently. Most notably as Military Governor of Japan following the end of WWII.

Hell, the "Business Plot", if it was real (there is only the word of General Butler that it was so), was so ill conceived as to be laughable. It doesn't matter who is the figurehead, it still wasn't going to go anywhere. Hell, the unmentionable sea mammal has a better chance at success that this "plot" ever would have.
 
RCAF Brat, yes.

One of the most ludicrous bits was that many of the alleged participants in the plot were enemies of long standing who, had they revealed the existance of such a plot, could not only have destroyed old rivals but, in some cases, enjoyed significant economic benefit from doing so.

I can just see the discussion where it is admitted that they have a long way to go before they can consider themselves at the level of 'plot' but why don't they bring in enemies of long standing in the confidence that these old foes will surely embrace the highly dubious plot rather than go for the easy way out and earn FDR's favor while disposing of personal and business rivals.
 
The I suppose that we can file the "Business Plot" under "Left Wing Conspiracy Theories". (Right wing conspiracy nuts of the time would have had communists try to organize the Bonus Army into a revolutionary force.) As a conspiracy theory it thus rates up there with the "9/11 Inside Job" and other wacked out "theories".
 
TheCrow, the problem with the allegation, beyond enemies of long standing giving each other the ability to destroy said enemies once and for all, is that it presumes that after careful consideration and planning they go to perhaps the last general in the country to be sympathetic to organize the plot.

Incidentally, the US Army back then was slightly over 100K in strength, including forces in Hawaii, the Philipines, etc. with a few hundred antique tanks(WWI vintage!) so the ability to achieve anything, even if the will was there, seems highly doubtful.



Your point about business rivals isn't convincing since business rivals collude with each other all the time, and if one of the rivals ratted out the others, the other businessmen could just say that their rival was trying to smear them and that his claims lacked credibility.

The business plotters planned to raise enough money to arm 500 thousand veterans for a show of force so the size of the army at the time was irrelevant, also irrelevant was the fact that Butler was a marine, since the plotters needed someone that would influence veterans, not necessarily the army.They wanted to force FDR to accept a Secretary of General Affairs that would actually run the country while FDR remained a figurehead.

The committee did find that their was credible evidence of plot against the government and it is a fact that the Duponts and other tycoons financed the right wing anti-New Deal American Liberty League.
 
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Sean, just the nonsense I've come to expect from you.

You twist the issue of personal enemies working together, to the point of leaving themselves at the mercy of those enemies, to the one of mere business rivals with no personal animosities working together.

You make the laughable claim that if a plot was revealed prematurely FDR or perhaps J Edgar Hoover, no friend of civil liberties, could take no action if they found the evidence provided by someone on the inside credible.

Since you claimed Butler ceased his efforts for prohibition in Pennsylvania because his leave from the army had expired my comment on which branch of the service he served in was entirely legitimate.

You confused the Liberty Lobby, formed in 1955, with a completely different group called the Liberty League. Another factual error.

Businessmen, or anyone else, supporting political groups financially is entirely legal, whether you like their positions or not. And, of course, you offer no evidence that either funding of or actions taken by the Liberty League were illegal.

The core of the plot was supposedly to be based on a veteran's march on Washington DC yet somehow no one involved appear aware of the actual and infamous affair of the Bonus Expeditionary Force a few years earlier. Which is utterly non-credible.

Another bit of stupidity is, again, proponents of a right-wing coup somehow being unaware of Butler's outspoken political positions on the other end of the spectrum. If you can imagine a left wing conspiracy asking MacArthur to lead the effort then this might be believable...


The committee's sole evidence was the actual postcards sent to Butler by Gerald MacGuire. Neither he nor anyone else was ever charged with a crime, let alone convicted, this at a time when the government's power to take action against perceived criminals was subject to far fewer limits, which certainly damages the claim that any credible evidence was found which could stand up in a court of law.



Sorry to drag you back to this time line.



RCAF Brat, not to mention that the co-chair of the committee, who is the key 'source' of the 'material' discovered years or decades later, was Samuel Dickstein, a proven agent of Joseph Stalin.
 

Cook

Banned
You have to know that something is beyond the Pale for me to stand up for Dugout Doug.

:p

I’m currently reading Peter Thompson’s “Pacific Fury”, and have just finished Bob Wurth’s “1942”.

It is definitely the case that the more you read about him the less you appreciate him.
 

Ian the Admin

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You ever seen a video of an airplane hitting the Pentagon? Have you heard Osama actually admit to doing it? George Bush's grandfather was actually supposedly involved with the 'Business Plot'. Yeah I'm skeptical maybe terrorists did hijack airplanes on their own accord but I still think the government knew all about it. And quite possibly helped make it worse. America's new Pearl Harbor for the New American Century. But back to Plot.... what if the Depression was alot worse and WWI was a complete failure for the AEF? Could this cause more support for the Coup?

This isn't a conspiracy theory site.

Banned.
 

Cook

Banned
To be fair, MacArthur had certain talents. Eisenhower spoke well of his days studying theatrics under MacArthur.:D

Wondered when someone would mention that.
Eisenhower had no chance in Macarthur’s staff anyway; he was an inch and a half taller than Mac, which was totally unacceptable.
:D
 
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