Hashasheen
Banned
As seen above. the confiscation of the Osman the first and and the Reşadiye turned the public opinion which until then was divided between Pro British and Pro German elements.
Hmm- unlikely. More likely they would have compensated the Ottomans for the ships, as they did with the Norwegian coastal battleships which were similarly requisitioned while being built (Bjørgvin and Nidaros, renamed Glatton and Gorgon). That would have somewhat ameliorated the effect on public opinion.As seen above. the confiscation of the Osman the first and and the Reşadiye turned the public opinion which until then was divided between Pro British and Pro German elements.
If Turkey were to stay neutral how much difference does this make to Russia. I presume that the Ottoman Empire would still not love Russia but if they allowed supplies through does it change anything?
The other thing is that there will not be the same Anglo French domination of the Arabian peninsular. Further there would be no "Balfour Declaration". I assume there would be fewer Jewish people moving to Palestine.
As seen above. the confiscation of the Osman the first and and the Reşadiye turned the public opinion which until then was divided between Pro British and Pro German elements.
I believe that the Turkish Navy was strongly pro-British until the seizure of the ships. Or do I have my facts wrong?The Young Turks that governed the OE were not divided into Pro-British and Pro-German elements, IIRC. They were strongly Pro-German, especially Enver Pasha.
I've always believed that the Turks were fence sitters until the Goeben, under Turkish colours, bombarded Russian ports. I think the Germans may have forced the Turks' hand.
I think it all comes down to timing. The Germans know that the Goeben and Breslau and pretty much written off if they were to steam to an Austrian port in the Adriatic. The British could still attempt to seize the ships at any point between Britain and the Dardanelles.
I believe that the Turkish Navy was strongly pro-British until the seizure of the ships. Or do I have my facts wrong?![]()
I believe that the Turkish Navy was strongly pro-British until the seizure of the ships. Or do I have my facts wrong?![]()
I read the same. Army: pro-German, Navy: pro-British
Given the advantages of a neutral or Entente Turkey I´d take the risk. Russia being able to im- and export freely has a much bigger effect than two hostile turkish BB.
The problem with this is that I don't see why the British would not have taken the Dreadnoughts...Churchill confiscated them for the same reason that he later confiscated the almost complete Chilean Dreadnought Almirante Latorre (and her un-named sister ship) - he was very worried in July 1914 about the ratio of British to German Dreadnoughts in the North Sea. Without a more favourable Dreadnought to Dreadnought ratio, I can't see the admiralty letting two powerful ships sail off into neutrality, or worse, potential hostility.
However strange I think it may look to us with hindsight - the Dreadnought ratios in the North Sea probably mattered more to Churchill more than did Turkish neutrality. He said so himself, iirc, even after the Turks went to war.
Aye, the numbers were jolly close for a while. I decided to avoid it in PlC by shifting the dreadnought ordering and completion dates. So when war broke out, Churchill couldn't nab them.
The Britsh had decisively won the naval arms race. Their shipbuilding capacytiy was so much bigger Germany never stood a chance.
In 1914 the UK had 21 BB and 9 BC, plus 40 PDN. France had 4, zero and 18, Russia zero, zero and 8. Germany 14, 5 and 22, AH had 3, zero and 12.
That´s 25 BB, 9 BC and 66 PDN for the Entente vs. 17, 5 and 32 for the Central Powers.
There's a period in '14 when numbers are very close for a month or two. I don't have the details to hand, but I recall some bloke in Wargames Illustrated doing a scenario based on the conditions. RN still won, I think. Might have been when the battlecruisers were pottering about the Falklands, blasting away. I can't really recall offhand.
With the two turkish ships delivered and Turkey still in the CP camp you get to 23 vs 19 BB once the war breaks out, but the pace of German shipbuilding slows down greatly, while Britains does not.