What if the British had kept New Ireland from Maine after the War of 1812?


unknown.png


What if the British had not returned this territory at the end of the war? That could potentially sour the Anglo-American relationship some, but it's not like all of Maine was taken, just some more tracts of snow. Canada gets to extend somewhat more south than it did historically. And we would have New Ireland next to New England, how fun. What would this region be like, this additional Maritime Province?
 
Just looking at some of the wikipedia pages for the counties their economies are even today based on forestry, agriculture, fishing, and tourism.

Offhand I'd say no great loss for the Americans, but nothing special for the British either.
 
I think that article overstates how "easy" a concession New Ireland would be. Even if the territory itself was insignificant, for the US to concede it at all would be to abandon their negotiating position of status quo ante, and if the British had been able to force them away from that position, they had far more extravagant demands in mind elsewhere that they'd be far more likely to insist on than this. So in a scenario where they take northern Maine they also take a lot more than just northern Maine.
 
What if the U.S. won some equally inconsequential land from the British and they decided to trade the two.

Or what if New Ireland is the price to pay for official recognition of America's annexation of West Florida.
 
They just attach it to New Brunswick. New Ireland makes sense before the creation of a separate province from Nova Scotia, but not after. At the time of the Revolutionary War New Brunswick didn't exist and Nova Scotia had the whole area, so a new province made sense. Less so after 1812.

Also, there's like nothing there. The only towns of note are Castine, Machias, Hampton and Eastport (which probably suffers a quick decline as it's no longer a smuggling entrepot).

I tend to agree with @TRH though, if the British are in a position of strength there's going to be big concessions. If there are only small concessions I think they just call it a wash and don't take anything.

Long term the only major changes I can think of is that Castine gets a big bump in population because the British put a garrison there and New Brunswick and the Canadas build the Intercolonial Railway and St. John gets a boost from being the terminus of the RR for several years.
 
I can think of a thread in which that proposal should make an appearance.
Alright I’ll bite, which one was it
Also, there's like nothing there. The only towns of note are Castine, Machias, Hampton and Eastport (which probably suffers a quick decline as it's no longer a smuggling entrepot).
Long term the only major changes I can think of is that Castine gets a big bump in population because the British put a garrison there and New Brunswick and the Canadas build the Intercolonial Railway and St. John gets a boost from being the terminus of the RR for several years.
I think losing Bangor is of at least regional note- “In 26 days, they succeeded in taking possession of Hampden, Bangor, and Machias, destroying or capturing 17 American ships.”

I’m still intrigued by the name and was wondering if it will be a location that the British will try to colonize not only with Loyalists but also Irishmen. Though admittedly the expanded territory doesn’t amount to much, still cold and remote.

The concept of “Canada’s natural borders” is interesting. Could the British have paid to keep it?
 
I think looking at New Brunswick and Quebec, this area would be more densely populated than it is today. Look at the Maine border and notice how adjacent parts on the Canadian side have more economic development.
Long term the only major changes I can think of is that Castine gets a big bump in population because the British put a garrison there and New Brunswick and the Canadas build the Intercolonial Railway and St. John gets a boost from being the terminus of the RR for several years.
That would be pretty major for this region and help keep the Maritimes economically vibrant. For this area, if the railroad is crossing OTL northern Maine, we'd see a lot more industrial development because better transportation would make it profitable.
 
I think looking at New Brunswick and Quebec, this area would be more densely populated than it is today. Look at the Maine border and notice how adjacent parts on the Canadian side have more economic development.
It's my understanding that the vast majority of northern Maine is and has been owned by logging companies, and the State, and that those entities restricted access and development. And its my further understanding that logging is dominant inasmuch as the land is less suitable for farming (short growing seasons, hilly terrain, no navigable waterways). In contrast, the Saint John River region (which lies just inside Canada) is apparently flat enough for farming and the river was suitable for pre-rail transportation.
 
I’m still intrigued by the name and was wondering if it will be a location that the British will try to colonize not only with Loyalists but also Irishmen. Though admittedly the expanded territory doesn’t amount to much, still cold and remote.

The concept of “Canada’s natural borders” is interesting. Could the British have paid to keep it?
The British had a handful of colonization schemes in Canada which proved successful, but they quickly shelved them because they realized that Irish were perfectly willing to migrate to the Americas on their own no matter how poor they were.
 
Historically there was a rail line that ran through northern Maine from Montreal to Saint John, NB. This was mostly because Montreal's port tended to be frozen longer before the icebreakers came about.

It was a little further south, but it might be directed farther north (if feasible) to keep it in Canada.

Assuming there's no major technical reason to prevent it, a lot of infrastructure would be shifted down south simply because it is now a shorter route between central and eastern Canada. So it would save money and travel times for Canada.
 
Proposed to be but yes.

Also - worth nothing this New Ireland seems to be the original border of French Acadia if it includes Castine and seeming border at the Kennebec River.
It's the Penobscot. The Kennebec is much further west.
Canada gets a bunch of Franco malcontents
It would only take small butterflies to start a major Quebec revolt several decades down the line
Quebec had a major rebellion a few decades down the line, it never got past the outskirts of greater Montreal, the countryside never really cared.
Historically there was a rail line that ran through northern Maine from Montreal to Saint John, NB. This was mostly because Montreal's port tended to be frozen longer before the icebreakers came about.

It was a little further south, but it might be directed farther north (if feasible) to keep it in Canada.

Assuming there's no major technical reason to prevent it, a lot of infrastructure would be shifted down south simply because it is now a shorter route between central and eastern Canada. So it would save money and travel times for Canada.
The Intercolonial Railway had a route surveyed in 1855 from St. John to Montreal that was never built because it ran too close to the American border. If Britain has the new border it almost assuredly gets built.
 
If nothing else 'New Ireland' makes a grand name for a province of Canada - especially for a RED DEAD REDEMPTION sequel that based itself on the 'Northern' rather than the Western (Perhaps something following the adventures and misadventures of Charles Smith?).
 
Top