What if the British asked that Alaska be secceded after the Crimean war?

randomkeith

Banned
I agree far better to loose Alaska then just a cold nasty hunk of rock then anything of strategic value to the British
 

HJ Tulp

Donor
So what if the Crimean Campaign succeeds in the beginning? I believe some parts of the Allied Army dittered and the advantage was lost? What is Sevastopel was taken right at the beginning?
 

Rockingham

Banned
Those minor territories included the fortress of Izmail (which the Russians had long fought for and whose storming by Suvorov in 1790 is referred to in one of Russia's national anthems) and gave Russia access to the Danube. Keeping those but giving up on Alaska would actually be in the tsar's advantage.
:eek:Well yes.. I meant minor in terms of size. As to it being to the tsars advantage...maybe Russia would be more likely to lose them after all.....


So what if the Crimean Campaign succeeds in the beginning? I believe some parts of the Allied Army dittered and the advantage was lost? What is Sevastopel was taken right at the beginning?
Well, from their, they can perhaps overwhelm the Crimean penisula in its entirety.... and once in the hands of a navally superior power, it would be very hard t otake back.

From their, or perhaps beforehand, I would expect them to go after Kinburn, thus leaving the Dnieper river ports and Odessa very vulnerable, and pehaps aid the Ottomans in the Caucasus as well......

So I would envision the Crimea, Oddesa and OTL Georgia in allied hands by the time Alexander II ascends the throne, as a BCS. In addition, they have suffered a significantly harsher military casualties then OTL. Of course, this presumes the death of Nicolas I at the same time as OTL...


Then Kinburn is next....
 
I think you might need something a bit more concrete, old boy. Some American politician like Seward in the ACW, who rants and rails against Canada during the Crimean War, making the Canadians and British nervy, would probably be a good start.

The Canadian politicians - and Canadians in general - were pretty nervy in OTL as well.
 

67th Tigers

Banned
Ponting ( http://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/0712636536 ) has a good account of the 1855 strategy meetings held after Sebastapol fell. The British wanted to move in Georgia (combined with simultaneous offensives in the Baltic and supporting a Swedish invasion of Finland), while the French had very different ideas...
 
:eek:Well yes.. I meant minor in terms of size. As to it being to the tsars advantage...

Well if we're talking about importance rather than size, notice that Russia actually sold Alaska, while southern Bessarabia it tried (and managed) to get back. So I'd argue he cared more for the strip of Danubian riverside that for the big chunk of ice.

So I would envision the Crimea, Oddesa and OTL Georgia in allied hands by the time Alexander II ascends the throne, as a BCS.

Georgia? I wouldn't think so, the Russians did reasonably well in the Caucasus and they'd sue for peace before the situation becomes that bad.

Ponting ( http://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/0712636536 ) has a good account of the 1855 strategy meetings held after Sebastapol fell. The British wanted to move in Georgia (combined with simultaneous offensives in the Baltic and supporting a Swedish invasion of Finland), while the French had very different ideas...

Ooh, tell me more!
 

NapoleonXIV

Banned
We can happily state it has taken its rightful place between the Operation Sea-Lion and Uber-Switzerland scenarios;)

Soon, Swiss smash puny nations.

The British had invaded Kamchatka in the Crimean war (anyone know anything more about that?) and 'threatened' Alaska. It was an ongoing thing to block Russian influence in the North Pacific and a major reason why Russia sold it to America. The Brits never really wanted the North P for themselves, too far away and not enough in it, but they definitely didn't want Russia the main power there either so America came out the winner.
 

Rockingham

Banned
Soon, Swiss smash puny nations.

The British had invaded Kamchatka in the Crimean war (anyone know anything more about that?) and 'threatened' Alaska. It was an ongoing thing to block Russian influence in the North Pacific and a major reason why Russia sold it to America. The Brits never really wanted the North P for themselves, too far away and not enough in it, but they definitely didn't want Russia the main power there either so America came out the winner.
You mean Liechenstein right(as I can't see any other nation being considered "puny" compared to Swizerland:D)?Makes me wonder if anyone would even notice/care if the Swiss were to annex it....

Yes, as you pointed out both Russia and the US had interests in the North Pacific... a Russia-US alliance might not be unlikely if the British take it upon themselves to dominate the region....

Well if we're talking about importance rather than size, notice that Russia actually sold Alaska, while southern Bessarabia it tried (and managed) to get back. So I'd argue he cared more for the strip of Danubian riverside that for the big chunk of ice.



Georgia? I wouldn't think so, the Russians did reasonably well in the Caucasus and they'd sue for peace before the situation becomes that bad.



Ooh, tell me more!
I wasn't implying that Russia cared more about Alaska:rolleyes:

As for Georgia.... well the Battle of Kars was a close thing OTL, and the difference between Russia doing well and doing badly. Also, the British planned to invade Georgia jointly with the Ottomans (as 67th Tigers said).

Nicolas I had rather bad judgement in regards to the Crimean war...he was blinded by ambition. So they might not sue for peace in that situation, no. I'd think it would take the Poles rebelling to achieve that.
 
You mean Liechenstein right(as I can't see any other nation being considered "puny" compared to Swizerland:D)?Makes me wonder if anyone would even notice/care if the Swiss were to annex it....
Oh, there are others. It's just that there are other, not so puny, states in between Switzerland and Luxemburg. Or Monaco.
But yes, it would be noticed because:
1) Switzerland and Liechtenstein would be at war. Which neither of them have been for a long time.
2) Liechtenstein does have a big industry: false teeth.
 
This is terrible! All Liechtenstein needs to do is sharpen some of those false teeth and they can field huge numbers of concealed weapons!:eek:
 

67th Tigers

Banned
Essentially continuing the war:

Spain - Spain has offered the British 30,000 men, if Britain pays for their transport and upkeep, and guarantees their overseas possessions, specifically Cuba in case the US allies with the Russians.

Polish, German and Italian Legions - These consisted at the time of 6 fresh brigades (1 Polish infantry, 1 Swiss infantry, 3 German infantry and a German hussar) which were just in the process of being sent to the Eastern army. These were to round out the flat British divisions to round ones.

British reserves - Panmure had kept a considerable force back at Malta (see http://www.crimeantexts.org.uk/sources/panmure.html for the Secretary of Wars correspondance) and plans to reinforce the Eastern Army to:

LORD PANMURE'S ESTIMATE OF TROOPS AT CODRINGTON'S DISPOSAL IN THE CRIMEA

N.C.O. AND MEN. Artillery (96 guns), 5,000 Horse Artillery, 500 Sappers and Miners, 500 Cavalry, 6,000 Infantry, 50,000 From Malta, 10,000 Foreign Levies, 10,000 82,000 Sardinians, 20,000 Turkish Contingent, 22,000 Osmanli Cavalry, 3,000 127,000 Deduct for sick 1/10th 12,700 114,300 Deduct for employés 1/10th 11,430 102,870 Deduct for detachment, 30,000 72,870 This includes no Land Transport Corps or Commissariat employés.

United States - The US was very annoyed that the British were recruiting for an American Legion (apparently with some success), and the US was considering declaring an alliance with Russia

Use of Nationalism - It was decided in Jan 56 to promise independence to Poland, Finland, and Circassia, and send armies to support any risings

Alliances with Austria and Prussia - A decision was made to persue alliances with these two powers

Baltic - The Kronstadt attack was to go ahead, the Swedes would send 30,000 men into the Aland islands, and invade Finland, while 40,000 British and French, with 16,000 Danes would land in Estonia.

Black Sea - a Force of 70,000 men to be left in the Crimean, while a force of 120,000 either went in Georgia and a series of naval assaults against Kerch etc. (British plan) or a small garrison left behind, while a force of 200,000 men clear the Crimea and then invade Ukraine proper (French), this was in conjection with supposed Austrian and Prussian attacks into Russia.
 
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