What if the British Army's plans to make Volkswagen an official subsidiary of Ford (back in 1948) became a success?

[Burai1992]

For those of you who don't know, back in 1948, the British Army planned to make Volkswagen an official subsidiary of Ford, free of charge. Henry Ford II, the son of Edsel Ford, travelled to Germany for discussions. Heinz Nordhoff was also present, as well as Ernest Breech, chairman of the board for Ford. Henry Ford II looked to Breech for his opinion, and Breech said, "Mr. Ford, I don't think what we're being offered here is worth a damn!" Ford passed on the offer, leaving Volkswagen to rebuild itself under Nordhoff's leadership: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Volkswagen#1945–1948:_British_Army_intervention

But what if Henry Ford II was aware of the tragic reality that Ford's so-called "Model-T-itis" was killing his own company, and made Volkswagen an official subsidiary of Ford? Would Volkswagen basically become Ford's answer to Opel? What would Ford/Lincoln/Mercury and Volkswagen's entire model line-up be like? And what would happen to Volkswagen's OTL subsidiaries (NSU, Škoda, Scania, Navistar International, Audi/DKW (Dampf Kraft Wagen)/Horch, MAN (Maschinenfabrik Augsburg-Nürnberg), Bentley, Porsche, Ducati, SEAT (Sociedad Española de Automóviles de Turismo), Lamborghini)?

 

[Nephi]

Wow who turns something like that down. I never knew that story, tbh they might well have ran it into the ground.

I'm imagining mustang looking cars with BMW logos on them.

That doesn't seem like it would work well in Germany.

 

[Burai1992]

Wow who turns something like that down. I never knew that story, tbh they might well have ran it into the ground.

I'm imagining mustang looking cars with BMW logos on them.

That doesn't seem like it would work well in Germany.

Well, do you think Ford would of been dominating the European auto industry right now instead of Volkswagen if the British Army's plans to sell Volkswagen to Ford became successful? With stuff like the Lincoln brand expanding over to Europe and the European colonies, as well as Peugeot-Citroën ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Peugeot_vehicles ), https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Panhard ), https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Citroën_vehicles ), https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DS_Automobiles ) and it's arch-rival Renault ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Renault_vehicles ), https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Berliet ), https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saviem ) taking notes from Ford/Lincoln/Mercury's model line-up from the American auto market and the European auto market ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Ford_vehicles ), https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Lincoln_vehicles ), https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Mercury_vehicles )?

 

[marathag]

Thing is, the Prewar Beetle, with mechanical brakes and fewer automotive amenities and less power than the Model A of 1930, that was already more than a generation behind in technology, didn't impress HFII for the US market, the same market that his Grandfather left in such a shambles.
They were not thinking of the European market, or that there would be any place for it in the USA, at all.

 

[Peg Leg Pom]

Wow who turns something like that down. I never knew that story, tbh they might well have ran it into the ground.

Everybody did.

 

[Burai1992]

Thing is, the Prewar Beetle, with mechanical brakes and fewer automotive amenities and less power than the Model A of 1930, that was already more than a generation behind in technology, didn't impress HFII for the US market, the same market that his Grandfather left in such a shambles.
They were not thinking of the European market, or that there would be any place for it in the USA, at all.

But why? Merging VW into Ford would of been a match made in heaven back in 1948. I could honestly see the VW Beetle getting facelifted as the "Ford Victory-Wagon".

 

[ric350]

As the British auto industry had already declared it crap, there’s no way Ford would have taken it on. The British/European markets were the only places Ford could have offered it, as offering the Beetle in the US, would have gotten Henry Ford II laughed out of the industry. On the other hand, I think the British missed a good bet not using it to help jumpstart their auto industry, and post war economy in general.

ric350

 

[overoceans]

VW vans have zero hippie cred.

 

[Burai1992]

As the British auto industry had already declared it crap, there’s no way Ford would have taken it on. The British/European markets were the only places Ford could have offered it, as offering the Beetle in the US, would have gotten Henry Ford II laughed out of the industry. On the other hand, I think the British missed a good bet not using it to help jumpstart their auto industry, and post war economy in general.

ric350

Well let's suppose Ford sold the VW Beetle (now renamed the "Ford Victory-Wagon" (a British/European-exclusive) thanks to the British Army's plans to merge Volkswagen into Ford becoming successful) as Ford's way of wanting to rebuild the British/European auto industry, we would see stuff like Ford/Lincoln/Mercury downsizing their cars (ever since Volkswagen merged into Ford Europe by order of the British Army), and Ford Germany moving their HQ from Köln to Wolfsburg, Ford dominating the British/European auto industry of Volkswagen, the Lincoln brand expanding over to Europe and the European colonies, and Peugeot ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Peugeot_vehicles ), https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Panhard ), https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Citroën_vehicles ), https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DS_Automobiles ) and it's arch-rival Renault ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Renault_vehicles ), https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Berliet ), https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saviem ) taking notes from Ford/Lincoln/Mercury's entire model line-up from the American auto market and the European auto market ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Ford_vehicles ), https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Lincoln_vehicles ), https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Mercury_vehicles )

Volkswagen's model line-up in this ATL:
* VW Beetle → Ford Victory-Wagon
* VW Transporter → Ford Transit
* VW Passat → Ford Taunus/Ford Sierra/Ford Mondeo
* VW Scirocco → Ford Capri
* VW Golf → Ford Escort/Ford Focus
* VW Polo → Ford Fiesta
* VW Jetta → Ford Orion
* VW Caddy → Ford Connect
* VW Sharan → Ford Galaxy
* VW Lupo/VW Fox/VW Up → Ford Ka
* VW Touran → Ford C-MAX/Ford S-MAX
* VW Tiguan → Ford Kuga

 

[marathag]

But why? Merging VW into Ford would of been a match made in heaven back in 1948. I could honestly see the VW Beetle getting facelifted as the "Ford Victory-Wagon".

I've thought of a TL where Hudson says yes to VW assets,but to market a form of the 4wd VW Schwimmwagen as Farm Utility vehicle, to try and steal some of Jeep's popularity as a work

The Jeep CJ-2A sold for around $1200 right after the War, but very little came as base equipment, options, like a passenger seat, rear seat, rear view mirror, windshield wipers and canvas soft top, raised prices quickly

The first Beetles imported, sold around $1300

And the VW, it would float, but seeing the rear for a three point hitch and PTO than propeller

 

[ric350]

Well let's suppose Ford sold the VW Beetle (now renamed the "Ford Victory-Wagon" (a British/European-exclusive) thanks to the British Army's plans to merge Volkswagen into Ford becoming successful) as Ford's way of wanting to rebuild the British/European auto industry,

I think the fact that the British said no, before the offer to Ford, made that decision stillborn. However what if the British had been enthusiastic at first about taking on VW, then maybe Henry Ford II would have smelled an opportunity and jumped on it as his “Euro car”, pushing the British out of the way. Sounds like something ol’ Henry would do.

ric350

 

[Dan1988]

First things first is to have a look at what Ford-Werke (Ford's existing German subsidiary) had on offer around this time, which were basically LHD versions of what existed in the British market. Even when given German names, like Köln or Eifel, they were just basically localized versions of what already existed outside of the US - in this case, the Model Y and Model C (both smaller than North American Fords, and indeed the latter replaced the former in 1937).

Now, had Ford decided to take on the KdF-Wagen (aka VW and the associated facilities), my thinking is that it would be directly integrated into Ford-Werke and not given any special treatment. It would definitely upend any possible plans for the Taunus, meaning this photo:

gets butterflied away. Ford would just simply relocate everything from Cologne to Wolfsburg, at least temporarily, reducing its former facility to making components and parts before upgrading to larger vehicles as the German economy recovers.
(Image source: <https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/...,_Erster_Ford_Taunus_läuft_vom_Fließband..jpg>)

New products need new names, so Ford could just simply recycle the Eifel name. Rather than seeing it as just transplanting its OTL success to TTL, I would instead scale it down to something more modest and limited primarily to Germany and maybe a few other Western and Central European countries that also IOTL took in the Taunus. (The remainder would take in its OTL British equivalent, the Anglia/Popular.) As Ford rebuilds, the new Eifel would be seen as a little brother to the Taunus (and probably last just as long as the 1955-1962 version of the OTL smaller model). Consequently, the Eifel proper would be limited to just simply the 1950s, with that particular model not continuing beyond the early 1960s at the latest.

However, if the consolidation of Ford's European subsidiaries becomes a thing and the Anglia and Eifel lines eventually merge, it could theoretically have influence on Ford's C-segment models over the long term (regardless of whether or not it's similar to the OTL Escort) but in a more modern and attractive package. The Eifel (< KdF-Wagen) was already outdated by the 1950s, yet few Germans cared since they were happy to have any set of wheels on the road. What could happen in response to the Eifel, though, is that Opel develops the Kadett a decade earlier than OTL (so that Opel would retain its dominant position in the German market), and as the Kadett would be a more modern 1950s design to the outdated 1930s design of the Kadett, German buyers eventually flock over to the Kadett instead. Yet both the Eifel and the Kadett would show a market definitely exists for the C-segment, so Ford would want a newer model to take on the Kadett than the Eifel. Another legacy of the KdF-Wagen project for Ford, of course, would be the Wolfsburg factory, which could become a great asset for Ford Europe in the long run.

But, as far as I can see it, that would be the extent of the *VW Beetle as a Ford. No convertibles, no Karmann-Ghias, no Passats or Sciroccos, nothing like that. The Beetle would just simply be a curio for a certain period in German auto history before becoming replaced by more conventional Ford products, that's all. (Likewise, I doubt Ford would be that keen to expand Lincoln and Mercury vehicles beyond North America post-war.) It could bounce around in the Global South for a while longer (the Ford Corcel and its offshoots are what I'd think of here as possible analogs), but that would be for a specific purpose and nothing like how VW grew and developed IOTL. There's probably far better alternatives for HFII's "Euro car" than the Beetle.

 

[Burai1992]

First things first is to have a look at what Ford-Werke (Ford's existing German subsidiary) had on offer around this time, which were basically LHD versions of what existed in the British market. Even when given German names, like Köln or Eifel, they were just basically localized versions of what already existed outside of the US - in this case, the Model Y and Model C (both smaller than North American Fords, and indeed the latter replaced the former in 1937).

Now, had Ford decided to take on the KdF-Wagen (aka VW and the associated facilities), my thinking is that it would be directly integrated into Ford-Werke and not given any special treatment. It would definitely upend any possible plans for the Taunus, meaning this photo:

gets butterflied away. Ford would just simply relocate everything from Cologne to Wolfsburg, at least temporarily, reducing its former facility to making components and parts before upgrading to larger vehicles as the German economy recovers.
(Image source: <https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Bundesarchiv_Bild_183-2005-0722-512,_Köln,_Erster_Ford_Taunus_läuft_vom_Fließband..jpg>)

New products need new names, so Ford could just simply recycle the Eifel name. Rather than seeing it as just transplanting its OTL success to TTL, I would instead scale it down to something more modest and limited primarily to Germany and maybe a few other Western and Central European countries that also IOTL took in the Taunus. (The remainder would take in its OTL British equivalent, the Anglia/Popular.) As Ford rebuilds, the new Eifel would be seen as a little brother to the Taunus (and probably last just as long as the 1955-1962 version of the OTL smaller model). Consequently, the Eifel proper would be limited to just simply the 1950s, with that particular model not continuing beyond the early 1960s at the latest.

However, if the consolidation of Ford's European subsidiaries becomes a thing and the Anglia and Eifel lines eventually merge, it could theoretically have influence on Ford's C-segment models over the long term (regardless of whether or not it's similar to the OTL Escort) but in a more modern and attractive package. The Eifel (< KdF-Wagen) was already outdated by the 1950s, yet few Germans cared since they were happy to have any set of wheels on the road. What could happen in response to the Eifel, though, is that Opel develops the Kadett a decade earlier than OTL (so that Opel would retain its dominant position in the German market), and as the Kadett would be a more modern 1950s design to the outdated 1930s design of the Kadett, German buyers eventually flock over to the Kadett instead. Yet both the Eifel and the Kadett would show a market definitely exists for the C-segment, so Ford would want a newer model to take on the Kadett than the Eifel. Another legacy of the KdF-Wagen project for Ford, of course, would be the Wolfsburg factory, which could become a great asset for Ford Europe in the long run.

But, as far as I can see it, that would be the extent of the *VW Beetle as a Ford. No convertibles, no Karmann-Ghias, no Passats or Sciroccos, nothing like that. The Beetle would just simply be a curio for a certain period in German auto history before becoming replaced by more conventional Ford products, that's all. (Likewise, I doubt Ford would be that keen to expand Lincoln and Mercury vehicles beyond North America post-war.) It could bounce around in the Global South for a while longer (the Ford Corcel and its offshoots are what I'd think of here as possible analogs), but that would be for a specific purpose and nothing like how VW grew and developed IOTL. There's probably far better alternatives for HFII's "Euro car" than the Beetle.

Well what about Volkswagen's OTL subsidiaries (NSU, Škoda, Scania, Navistar International, Audi/DKW (Dampf Kraft Wagen)/Horch, MAN (Maschinenfabrik Augsburg-Nürnberg), Bentley, Porsche, Ducati, SEAT (Sociedad Española de Automóviles de Turismo), Lamborghini)?

And since VW's extended model line-up never existed in this ATL, here's a list of Ford vehicles (for Ford Germany) to substitute VW's extended model line-up:
* VW Transporter: Ford Transit
* VW Trekker: Ford Bronco/Ford Centurion → Ford Explorer/Ford Expedition/Ford Excursion
* VW Passat: Ford Cortina → Ford Sierra → Ford Mondeo
* VW Scirocco: Ford Capri
* VW Polo: Ford Fiesta
* VW Jetta: Ford Orion
* VW Caddy: Ford Transit Connect
* VW Corrado: Ford Probe
* VW Sharan: Ford Galaxy
* VW Lupo → VW Fox → VW Up: Ford Ka
* VW Touran: Ford C-MAX/Ford S-MAX
* VW Tiguan: Ford Kuga

 

[Dan1988]

Well what about Volkswagen's OTL subsidiaries (NSU, Škoda, Scania, Navistar International, Audi/DKW (Dampf Kraft Wagen)/Horch, MAN (Maschinenfabrik Augsburg-Nürnberg), Bentley, Porsche, Ducati, SEAT (Sociedad Española de Automóviles de Turismo), Lamborghini)?

In most cases, I would assume they would go their separate ways or never came to be; SEAT, for instance, was originally a FIAT subsidiary (well, joint venture with the Francoist state) due to the peculiarities of the Spanish market at the time it was founded.

And since VW's extended model line-up never existed in this ATL, here's a list of Ford vehicles (for Ford Germany) to substitute VW's extended model line-up:

Of course, it should be noted that had VW been directly incorporated into Ford (leaving only the car and the factory) from the beginning, that Ford lineup probably might not exist in TTL. That would just be shoehorning OTL into TTL. For example, if we go back to the 1950s for a minute, let's go towards the larger end of the 1950s Ford model range for Germany. Now, at the time, Ford only went big IOTL once the German market recovered to the point where such models were possible. However, Ford had the annoying tendency of treating both the smaller and larger model ranges as a single Taunus lineup. (Americans and Canadians of a certain age would recognize this as how the Oldsmobile Cutlass was marketed during the 1980s.) ITTL, both the smaller and larger Taunus ranges could be treated separately, with a new model name (at least keeping in tune with the mountain theme) for the larger vehicle that IOTL became the P2. In that case, it would be interesting to see what Ford and ex-VW engineers together could come up with for the *P2/17M ITTL.