What if the Austrians also took Bosnia in the Turkish War of 1716-1718

Vuu

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Considering the time period the Muslims are going to have bad fates if they do not leave immediately.

There weren't many in the Balkans at the time - both Bosnia and Albania became majority muslim due to muslims adamantly refusing to live in christian-governed states, and as the Balkan states spread, they would immediately move deeper into Turkey but still stay close to their original lands. In this situation, Balkan muslims would probably be ignored due to being scattered around and not any meaningful risk to start a rebellion because they know they would get btfo, and over time TTL Bosnia equivalent would probably be Macedonia
 
There weren't many in the Balkans at the time - both Bosnia and Albania became majority muslim due to muslims adamantly refusing to live in christian-governed states, and as the Balkan states spread, they would immediately move deeper into Turkey but still stay close to their original lands. In this situation, Balkan muslims would probably be ignored due to being scattered around and not any meaningful risk to start a rebellion because they know they would get btfo, and over time TTL Bosnia equivalent would probably be Macedonia
I do not understand how Hapsburg Bosnia would somehow butterfly away Albanians converting to Islam. They had their own reasons that were unrelated to Bosnia and would be unaffected by a POD. For example they used to do a lot of mercenary work and that is kind of hard to do when you do not share the same religion as the Empire that owns you. I am exclusively talking about Bosnia here. What will happen is that Muslims in Bosnia will move to Albania and Thrace. Even if the Habsburgs promised religious liberty to the Muslims this is not an era where they would actually enforce that. When Mobs of intolerant peasants start forming and begin lynching Muslims in villages, they will just shrug their shoulders, say "that's too bad," and get to the real task of trying to get those Serbs to accept the authority of the Pope, but hey, at least they are Christian!
 
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raharris1973

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Rollbak from Serbia and Oltenia was a huge diplomatic blunder on Habsburg part - the military situation didnt warran to give up all of that territory.

Really? So the Austro-Hungarians were not forced to do this by military overextension or the danger created by the invasion of Silesia? I mean Austria spent a decent part of the 1740s getting smacked around.
 
Really? So the Austro-Hungarians were not forced to do this by military overextension or the danger created by the invasion of Silesia? I mean Austria spent a decent part of the 1740s getting smacked around.

I wouldnt call they performance stellar as they were certainly loosing more than winning. However their main fortress, Belgrade which they spent a fortune on fortifying has never fallen and the military situation just started to reverse itself when they made peace. The russians were also slowly starting to win in the east.

However Vienna was fearing a 2 front war and sent its envoy to make peace when the military situation was the worst for them with instructions to make peace for any price. The ottomans than managed to isolate the austrian diplomat and news and messeges of the reversal of the military situation and change of his instructions didnt reach him, so he made peace based on the original one. Thus he ended up giving up Belgrade end all of Serbia and Oltenia when the military situation didnt warrant it.
 
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Bosnia is mountainous and well defendable, once the Habsburgs manage to take it, they will likely hold onto it.

As others above said as well, not even the loss of Serbia and Oltenia was given, so that makes the loss of Bosnia even less likely.

About the possible consequences:
-We could see a much smaller percentage of Muslims in Bosnia.
-The old Western and Northwestern borders of Bosnia, Croatia and Slavonia would be restored.
-The military frontier in Hungary would be completely abolished, which would lead to the Serbian population there to plummet, which could pose as a great opportunity for Croats and Hungarians to resettle or Germans to settle those areas. With the further repopulation attempts of war-torn Serbia, the Serbian population of Hungary could shrink to abysmal levels.
-Bosnia would most likely become predominantly Catholic, who later could embrace Croatian nationalism.


Further possible consequences:
If the Habsburgs manage to hold onto Serbia and Oltenia alongside Bosnia, that might mean that without the huge prestige loss, the succession of Maria Theresa might be much more swift, than OTL. Maybe Frederick II of Prussia could decide not to invade Silesia in this sceniario.
It needless to say, what huge butterflies that could cause.
 

raharris1973

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In the late 19th and 20th century, with Serbs being integral Austria over that time, how would their loyalty to Vienna compare with other nationalities in the empire?
 
With lessened distinction between the Bosnians and the Croats and a much stronger Austria in TTL, perhaps it is possible Serbia might abandon the Cyrillic alphabet and adopt the Latin script to better communicate with the Croats/Bosnians in the Hapsburg Empire. It would be a matter of practicality trumping religious affiliation.
 
In the late 19th and 20th century, with Serbs being integral Austria over that time, how would their loyalty to Vienna compare with other nationalities in the empire?
I can see the Serbs living within the empire adopting Eastern Catholicy and the latin alphabet. In the long run, it could have very interesting consequences. I believe, this could possibly lead to the division of the Serb nation into two:
-The Eastern Catholic Serbs within the Habsburg Empire, who use the latin alphabet. Their cultural centre would be Belgrade.
-The Orthodox Rasces outside of the Habsburg Empire, who use cyrillic. Their centre could be Nis.

These two would view eachother differently, so the "Serbs" would feel themselves to be entirely integral part of the empire, therefore loyal.
 
I can see the Serbs living within the empire adopting Eastern Catholicy and the latin alphabet. In the long run, it could have very interesting consequences. I believe, this could possibly lead to the division of the Serb nation into two:
-The Eastern Catholic Serbs within the Habsburg Empire, who use the latin alphabet. Their cultural centre would be Belgrade.
-The Orthodox Rasces outside of the Habsburg Empire, who use cyrillic. Their centre could be Nis.

These two would view eachother differently, so the "Serbs" would feel themselves to be entirely integral part of the empire, therefore loyal.

This would be interesting however:
1. OTL the habsburg Empire retained significant serbian populace and they remained orthodox - though there has been attempts to convert them.
2. A big part of the romanian population of the empire was greek catholic. They never developed a separate identity. Partly outside of the empire's scope but the same is true for the ukrainians. We could also mention the hungarians, germans and others who had groups following different branches of christianity and have 1 identity.
 
1. OTL the habsburg Empire retained significant serbian populace and they remained orthodox - though there has been attempts to convert them.
I think, the difference is that, while OTL, the Serbs were simply just an ethnic group within the empire, TTL the Habsburgs lastingly rule over Serbia itself. Converting the Serbs suddenly became a more significant matter, since it can be tied to the legitimacy of Habsburg rule in Serbia. Also the attempts at converting the Serbs were abandoned relatively early, the Serbian Orthodox Church even gained seats in the "Upper House" of the Diet of Hungary.

2. A big part of the romanian population of the empire was greek catholic. They never developed a separate identity. Partly outside of the empire's scope but the same is true for the ukrainians. We could also mention the hungarians, germans and others who had groups following different branches of christianity and have 1 identity.
Well, the matter of religion and alphabet proved to be a lasting divisive factor in the South Slavic area in OTL though, that's what I based my assumption on.

Regarding the Ukraineans. I believe, that the adoption of Eastern Catholicy played a huge part in setting the stage for the division of the Russian and Ukrainean identities. The same goes for the Belorussians.
 
I think, the difference is that, while OTL, the Serbs were simply just an ethnic group within the empire, TTL the Habsburgs lastingly rule over Serbia itself. Converting the Serbs suddenly became a more significant matter, since it can be tied to the legitimacy of Habsburg rule in Serbia. Also the attempts at converting the Serbs were abandoned relatively early, the Serbian Orthodox Church even gained seats in the "Upper House" of the Diet of Hungary.


Well, the matter of religion and alphabet proved to be a lasting divisive factor in the South Slavic area in OTL though, that's what I based my assumption on.

Regarding the Ukraineans. I believe, that the adoption of Eastern Catholicy played a huge part in setting the stage for the division of the Russian and Ukrainean identities. The same goes for the Belorussians.

I think the main reason for not taking more serious steps in converting the serbs were they role as border guards. They didnt want to alienate them. I completly agree with the rest.
 
I think, the difference is that, while OTL, the Serbs were simply just an ethnic group within the empire, TTL the Habsburgs lastingly rule over Serbia itself. Converting the Serbs suddenly became a more significant matter, since it can be tied to the legitimacy of Habsburg rule in Serbia. Also the attempts at converting the Serbs were abandoned relatively early, the Serbian Orthodox Church even gained seats in the "Upper House" of the Diet of Hungary.

I'm skeptical of the idea of a massive forced conversion campaign (nevermind a successful conversion campaign). An attempt at converting the Serbs would face a huge backlash. Even in OTL, a bunch of Serbs migrated from Habsburg Hungary because of the pressure to convert. They didn't migrate somewhere nice, either, they moved to random wastelands in Ukraine - that's how annoyed they were. And some raised small rebellions.

Enacting a stronger campaign and spreading it to Serbia itself would result in more migrations, much more rebellions, and a general miasma of disloyalty. The Habsburgs would probably realize the religious pressure is making a strategic border region hate their guts, and abort the campaign.
 
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