What if the Australian Aboriginals fought off the First Fleet?

Copy, fake, overtake! The rest of the world would be better off if they followed our lead.
5045189_orig.jpg


Japan - Beating the white man at his game since 1905!
 
5045189_orig.jpg


Japan - Beating the white man at his game since 1905!

In no way applicable to the Eora of Sydney in 1788.

They'd have too take on farming and livestock before mining iron to make the nails to build the sailing ships. Perhaps if the First Fleet landed at Portland Victoria and come into contact with the thousands Gunditjimara living 9 months of the year in the improved wetlands of the Condah swamp they might have been pushed back, but not in Sydney.
 
Or you can just say what they are specifically like "lithic culture"

Every group doesn't have the chance of having Neolithic middle eastern people give them everything from genetics, language, live stock, boating tradition, writing, and religion like Europeans.
The reasons why are unimportant, and "primitive" is not a criticsm.
 
Neither of which are even remotely relevant. That's leaving aside the facts that the U.S. did not invade North Vietnam, and defeated all North Vietnamese attempts to invade South Vietnam, until the U.S. public was persuaded to abandon the war.
A better example to use would be the Seminole Wars. The Seminole actually held out amazingly well despite being massively outnumbered, and cost the US no small amount of money in fighting them. Of course the Seminole had guns and lived in semi-tropical jungle and swampland, so they had lots of advantages the Aborigines wouldn't.
 
Japan - Beating the white man at his game since 1905!

That was the point of my post; that Europe in general and northern/western Europe in particular didn't "invent" our civilization bottom-up was never a disadvantage. We did, however have one of the better "starting positions". Australian Aborigines probably compete with north American natives for the worst.

A much earlier POD is needed.
 
In no way applicable to the Eora of Sydney in 1788.

They'd have too take on farming and livestock before mining iron to make the nails to build the sailing ships. Perhaps if the First Fleet landed at Portland Victoria and come into contact with the thousands Gunditjimara living 9 months of the year in the improved wetlands of the Condah swamp they might have been pushed back, but not in Sydney.

Just a slight note on naval tech: in the Indian Ocean, most ships were built without nails but with rope made from coco fiber to link the planks together.
I'll admit I don't know much about what they could have done, but the lack of nails wasn't that much of a hurdle to build ships.
 
Just a slight note on naval tech: in the Indian Ocean, most ships were built without nails but with rope made from coco fiber to link the planks together.
I'll admit I don't know much about what they could have done, but the lack of nails wasn't that much of a hurdle to build ships.

While I take your point, Indian Ocean ships were routinely destroyed by European ships from the 15th century through the 18th, in part for this reason...
 
In no way applicable to the Eora of Sydney in 1788.

They'd have too take on farming and livestock before mining iron to make the nails to build the sailing ships.

My eye caught this.

Trenails they are a thing, more importantly the mighty ships of the First Fleet used them :D

Wooden nails have the advantage of giving you longer lasting ships. That said you would probably want metal tools to consider serious ship building.
 
While I take your point, Indian Ocean ships were routinely destroyed by European ships from the 15th century through the 18th, in part for this reason...
That is true, but we do see battles won by those ships, especially if there's enough of them or if they can go hand to hand.
The problem was less with the lack of nails but more that they got pulverised from hundreds of meters away, which didn't help.

Of course I don't expect aboriginals to have cannons or experienced artillery officers.

However, there's no shortage of ways to kill settlers: kill them while they sleep (if you can infiltrate the camp), lead them in the desert and scamper away, give them poisoned foods, ambushes... Or a combination of the above.
 
But that's not the case in Sydney in 1788, the First Fleet had 245 Marines and the HMS Supply with 4 x 3-pdrs, 4 x 12-pdr and HMS Sirius with 4 × 6pdrs, 6 × 18pdr, not to mention another 1100 people in the colony. I think that if the Eora were interested enough to get upset they would struggle to defeat this armed force and then wipe out a population that most likely exceeded theirs.
I think with this kind of numbers and weapons you would need a coalition of at least 10 times that number to even have a chance to defeat the colonists. Which would devastate their numbers. Also any survivors that manage to escape will tell Britain and they will retaliate with force. If they capture any colonists and much of the supplies will have disease pathogens that will kill at least 50% to 95% of those that did not die. Add in the chaos that will occur, you could have maybe a sixth of what was there pre-contact.
 

takerma

Banned
Even if you have numbers, you need men conditioned for pitched battle to close in to hand to hand and kill the English. Zulu were exactly that so British had to resort to using anti cavalry tactics against them funny enough. Attacking a force of that size.. That is absolutely different level of organization that is needed.
 
If they capture any colonists and much of the supplies will have disease pathogens that will kill at least 50% to 95% of those that did not die.

There was an outbreak of smallpox in Australia in 1789, but its origin is disputed and even those who believe it was he First Fleet don't agree if the release was accidental or deliberate. The outbreak killed up to 50% of the Aborigines in the Sydney area.

Even if you have numbers, you need men conditioned for pitched battle to close in to hand to hand and kill the English. Zulu were exactly that so British had to resort to using anti cavalry tactics against them funny enough. Attacking a force of that size.. That is absolutely different level of organization that is needed.

Yes, a guerrilla campaign will not drive over 1300 colonists into the sea in the face of the firepower of the First Fleet Marines, RN ships and even the private weapons of other colonists. What's more the Second Fleet arrived in June-July 1790, with ~800 more convicts plus the NSW Corps of 3 Coys, and the 3rd Fleet with another ~1900 convicts arrived the next year. That is a hell of a lot of people for the smallpox decimated Eora to kill.
 
Top