What if the Ark Royal was not sunk in Nov of 1941

The Ark Royal was designed to carry 72 AC what if she was still around in Jan of 1942 .
What difference could she have made in the War in the Pacific in 1942 .
 

sharlin

Banned
Depends when she was deployed out there. If she was part of Cunninghams forces when the Kido Bukai went on its Indian Ocean excursion then it still would not matter too much as the IJN had vastly more aircraft and superior ones at that compaired to those on the RN carriers. In reality there's little the RN could have done to stop the IJN short of acting like a speed bump. If somehow the RN managed to get all three carriers (Furious, one of the armoured carriers and the Ark Royal) near the IJN to try a night strike with Swordfish it might have accomplished something, but if that attack failed they would have to run like hell and HOPE that the IJN does not catch them in the day.

Later in the war she'd be useful as part of the Pacific Fleet but she'd be a bit tired and worn out. She was worked hard in her short life and given a longer one she'd be worked just as hard.
 
IIRC the Ark was initially designed to carry 72 aircraft but this was downgraded to 60, and in the event the most she ever carried was 54. If you add 54 aircraft to almost any RN action in 1942 you'd do significantly better.
 

Hyperion

Banned
Depends when she was deployed out there. If she was part of Cunninghams forces when the Kido Bukai went on its Indian Ocean excursion then it still would not matter too much as the IJN had vastly more aircraft and superior ones at that compaired to those on the RN carriers. In reality there's little the RN could have done to stop the IJN short of acting like a speed bump. If somehow the RN managed to get all three carriers (Furious, one of the armoured carriers and the Ark Royal) near the IJN to try a night strike with Swordfish it might have accomplished something, but if that attack failed they would have to run like hell and HOPE that the IJN does not catch them in the day.

Later in the war she'd be useful as part of the Pacific Fleet but she'd be a bit tired and worn out. She was worked hard in her short life and given a longer one she'd be worked just as hard.

Where do you do your research, or lack thereof?

Cunningham was never in charge in the Indian Ocean, at the time, James Somerville was the one in charge when Nagumo came to visit.

That and HMS Furious was never present in 1942 in the Indian Ocean.
 
The Ark Royal was designed to carry 72 AC what if she was still around in Jan of 1942 .
What difference could she have made in the War in the Pacific in 1942 .

I'm sure an identical question came up a few months ago.

The Ark Royal won't be going to the Indian Ocean in 1942 as she was needed in the Med. With the Ark Royal still around then the USS Wasp won't be required so she could serve in the Pacific earlier than OTL.

Ark Royal would be used in Operation Pedestal instead of the old and slow Eagle and would stick around the Med until 1943 supporting Torch, Siciliy and Salerno and then go home for a long refit. We would see her in the Indian Ocean in 1944 and maybe the BPF but not sure.
 
That raises an interesting point, the old, slow carriers: Argus, Hermes, Eagle, Furious were either sunk in 1942 or laid up in 1944. In contrast the big, fast carriers: Glorious, Corageous and Ark Royal were gone in 39/40/41. it would be interesting if the first 4 were sunk and the last three survived to fight in 1942.
 
Furious wasnt slow, she was a half sister of Glorious and Couragous with a maximum speed of ~30 knots.

If the RN was operating its fast carriers in pairs throughout the war and they were running with full airgroups and a decent ASW screen and a Dido & C-class AA escort for the war, they would have provided a significant boost in the med and Eastern Theatres.

It would give the RN about another 120-140 airframes to play with, more if the Couragous class half-sisters could be modified for full length flight decks and hangers.
 
Later in the war she'd be useful as part of the Pacific Fleet but she'd be a bit tired and worn out. She was worked hard in her short life and given a longer one she'd be worked just as hard.

She wouldn't be much of a factor as part of the American campaigns. She'd be one ship, and a relatively small one. The Americans had 14 Essexes that saw action, with more on the way as well as CVLs. Useful, sure, anything that floated would be useful, but it looks to me as though the only chance of a big impact for her lies with the British.
 
Furious wasnt slow, she was a half sister of Glorious and Couragous with a maximum speed of ~30 knots.

If the RN was operating its fast carriers in pairs throughout the war and they were running with full airgroups and a decent ASW screen and a Dido & C-class AA escort for the war, they would have provided a significant boost in the med and Eastern Theatres.

It would give the RN about another 120-140 airframes to play with, more if the Couragous class half-sisters could be modified for full length flight decks and hangers.

I said old and slow. Furious was very old so, despite being a sister of the C & G she could often only manage 27kts during WW2. She also had a pre war compliment of about 36 planes compared to C & G theoretical 48. Surely if RN has to lose a carrier in 39/40/41 Furious would be missed less than C & G.
 

Hyperion

Banned
I'm sure an identical question came up a few months ago.

The Ark Royal won't be going to the Indian Ocean in 1942 as she was needed in the Med. With the Ark Royal still around then the USS Wasp won't be required so she could serve in the Pacific earlier than OTL.

Ark Royal would be used in Operation Pedestal instead of the old and slow Eagle and would stick around the Med until 1943 supporting Torch, Siciliy and Salerno and then go home for a long refit. We would see her in the Indian Ocean in 1944 and maybe the BPF but not sure.

If Ark Royal is still around in the Meditteranean, this could see the HMS Illustrious heading to the Indian Ocean a month or two sooner than OTL. Originally she left out in March 1942, and was there to provide cover for the Madagasscar landings with HMS Indomitable.

If she can head east in January or February, she'd probably join with Indomitable and Formidable, making Force A a very powerful group to deal with, especially if she has Wildcats or Hurricanes onboard for fighter cover instead of more antiquated fighters.

It wouldn't be enough to stop Nagumo, unless they could hit him at night, but assuming Somerville is smart enough to avoid detection as in OTL, it would still leave him with a powerful fleet in being.

As for Ark Royal herself, sometime in mid to late 1942, say after Torch, it might not be a bad idea to return her to Britain or even send her to the US for a good overhaul period.
 
ark was lucky to live as long as she did; the u-39 had a perfect shot at her and fired 2 or 3 fish at her from unmissable close range (2 fish british sources, 3 fish german sources); all fish detonated prematurely giving away u-boat's position leading to her being sunk by escorts

losing the ark in 9/39 would hurt british strategic options
 
Ark had some bizzare features, like lifts that did not serve both hangars so a plane couldn't go from the flight deck to the lower hangar without being taken off the lift in the upper hangar, the lift being raised out of the way and the plane put on the lower lift, the lifts were also quite narrow. This makes me wonder how she would have gone if she survived until 1942 and started getting US aircraft. Would her lifts be wide enough for bigger aircraft or would she be stuck with the runts of the litter?
 
I agree that Ark Royal would have stayed in the Med, assuming she survives I think it possible that by 1944 she would be able to go for a major refit leaving the Illustrious class to be the workhorses of the fleet. By 1944 I suspect she would be quite worn out.

If they decide against a refit in 1944 ( due to cost and the fact that the Naval war was almost won) I suspect she would be on secondary duties such as escorting convoys. Without a major refit I doubt she would have gone to join the BPF
 
Top