What if the 1930s-40s Japan was less brutal

So, I know that the Japanese of the 1930s and 40s often floated the idea of Asian decolonization around backed up by catchy slogans like “Asia for the Asiatics” and even creating the Greater East Asia Co-Prosperity Sphere (Dai Toa Kyoeiken) but it was all, of course, a farce. In reality the Japanese planned, and tried to impose their utter domination upon the peoples of Asia, not decolonizing them but rather replacing the European colonial powers with a local “home grown” one, if you will. Indeed, I’ve read that sometimes the locals in places like Indochina and Indonesia would greet the Japanese as liberators only to later realize that they were even worse than the Europeans that they had replaced. So, my question here is this: what if the Japanese actually believed in all of their propaganda and were less brutal to those they liberated from European colonialism. What if instead of raping and pillaging everywhere they went, the Japanese actually played the part of liberator and truly empowered those colonies that they freed, at least to some extent. Of course, in such a hypothetical I still expect the war with China to occur, but a huge problem for the Japanese was that the puppet states they established, such as Manchukuo or the Wang Jingwei regime, were utterly powerless and useless simply because of the Japanese brutality. But what if the Japanese didn’t treat the Chinese as inferior and brutalize them, thus making people more willing to stay loyal to the new regimes the Japanese established. I’m not saying that the Japanese have to entirely lose their sense of superiority, but instead of seeing their fellow Asians as inferior subhumans they’d maybe see them as backwards brethren that needed “guidance”, for lack of a better world. I envision a scenario in which the rape of Nanking, as well as numerous other atrocities of the sort, simply don’t take place, and thus public opinion around the world doesn’t turn as drastically against the Empire. Who knows, maybe people in the US would even sympathize with the Japanese if they were seen as truly fighting European colonialism in Asia. Americans tended to be opposed to colonialism and often sympathized with the colonized nations, including those in Asia (no, the irony of the Philippines being a de facto colony of the US at the time is not lost on me).

Sorry for the long post, and apologies if you see this proposed alternate benevolent Japan as utterly improbable to the point of not even meriting discussion. I know it’s a stretch, but I also know that before militarism took over in Japan in the late 20s and early 30s many Japanese were indeed committed to the ideals of Asian emancipation and brotherhood. Indeed, Dr Sun Yat Sen had many supporters in Japan and received direct help from the Japanese in his efforts to overthrow the Qing Dynasty (and not all of those helping him did so for purely selfish reasons of wanting to weaken China). Anyway, what do you guys think. How would the world be different if a “nicer” Japan existed at the time around and during WW2.
 
Simple. They take China and that's it. Maybe we can push to Indonesia. But Japan only got to indochina by Vichy France, and by extension, Hitler's good graces. If japan is actually going for liberation, or are only as bad as the europeans, there's no way they're allied with the nazis. This also means that Siam or british malaya never become options.

Hell since the POD would require less crazy Hypernationalists in charge anyway(which is why it wouldnt be an axis state), Japan might reconcile with the west after the invasion of manchuria. This could actually mean that Japan joins the allies because of the big, scary, anti-colonialist, anti-monarchical bear to their north

You want a moderate but "axis" Japan? Restore the Kaiser his throne, have Willy be focused on tearing the commies down with Japan and poland by his side.
 
Interesting, so what is this alt Imperial Japanese Empire like? Is it like the British Empire only Asian? That has potential. If there is little difference between the British and Japanese rulers I think that the Japanese have a big advantage in being Asian. They could very well inspire some anti-British revolts in Asia in which they can exploit by taking over.
 
Has someone got a catchy name for this conceit, because NotGreatYamatoCult is a bit long.

Maybe GrowanotShowa?
 
Interesting, so what is this alt Imperial Japanese Empire like? Is it like the British Empire only Asian? That has potential. If there is little difference between the British and Japanese rulers I think that the Japanese have a big advantage in being Asian. They could very well inspire some anti-British revolts in Asia in which they can exploit by taking over.
Honestly i have to imagine it's more like the Chinese Empire it just replaced.Let's call this Japanese led chinese empire the Tàiyáng dynasty. Why? because it seems customary for conquerers/dynastic founders to pick a new one upon their conquest and it's what Google tells me is Mandarin for Sun. But why would the Japanese Empire become more like the Chinese? A few reasons:

-Its where their population is. Would there be some resettlement of the chinese to give the Japanese the best farmland? Yeah. But all the land to resettle them is in... china. Even if they conquer Vietnam i'm willing to bet it's cheaper to put them in china's vast fields than Vietnam's vietphonic jungles.

-You wanna be where the money is, and if otl's anything to go by it'll be in china once they get it nice and industrialized

-The chinese system of government worked pretty damn well whenever they didn't have babies on the throne so i expect the Tàiyáng administration will be very familiar to those who remembered the Qing system/historians
-Britain was trying to administer over 20% of a PLANET, pending when this transition is, most of it spread out and it's various colonies and dominions having decent autonomy. Whereas Japan would be running a far smaller (size wise, definitely not population) and closer empire. I imagine it would look like America or even just Japan.

-Also this Japan/ the Tàiyáng dynasty would have to fight, and fight hard for respect and legitimacy. Think about how long it took the US to aknowledge the PRC as China when that was a native regime that had decimated the local government. TTL, the guy claiming the governance of China is a foreign invader who most certainly beat up the strongest authorities of the region, but who knows if the KMT run off somewhere and continue to claim government of china. Hence the Tàiyáng would probably try and create an identity that transcends... oh who am i kidding it's more cultural repression like ot's PRC led manchuria. Is that better than what OUR japan would do in a victory? That depends, which is more important: lives or the cultures and identity of those lives?
 
Honestly i have to imagine it's more like the Chinese Empire it just replaced.Let's call this Japanese led chinese empire the Tàiyáng dynasty. Why? because it seems customary for conquerers/dynastic founders to pick a new one upon their conquest and it's what Google tells me is Mandarin for Sun. But why would the Japanese Empire become more like the Chinese? A few reasons:

-Its where their population is. Would there be some resettlement of the chinese to give the Japanese the best farmland? Yeah. But all the land to resettle them is in... china. Even if they conquer Vietnam i'm willing to bet it's cheaper to put them in china's vast fields than Vietnam's vietphonic jungles.

-You wanna be where the money is, and if otl's anything to go by it'll be in china once they get it nice and industrialized

-The chinese system of government worked pretty damn well whenever they didn't have babies on the throne so i expect the Tàiyáng administration will be very familiar to those who remembered the Qing system/historians
-Britain was trying to administer over 20% of a PLANET, pending when this transition is, most of it spread out and it's various colonies and dominions having decent autonomy. Whereas Japan would be running a far smaller (size wise, definitely not population) and closer empire. I imagine it would look like America or even just Japan.

-Also this Japan/ the Tàiyáng dynasty would have to fight, and fight hard for respect and legitimacy. Think about how long it took the US to aknowledge the PRC as China when that was a native regime that had decimated the local government. TTL, the guy claiming the governance of China is a foreign invader who most certainly beat up the strongest authorities of the region, but who knows if the KMT run off somewhere and continue to claim government of china. Hence the Tàiyáng would probably try and create an identity that transcends... oh who am i kidding it's more cultural repression like ot's PRC led manchuria. Is that better than what OUR japan would do in a victory? That depends, which is more important: lives or the cultures and identity of those lives?

I am confused what you mean by this.
 
I am confused what you mean by this.
You were wondering how it would compare to the british empire, right? I was thinking it would wind up really different because of the population and economic pull of the chinese provinces as well as Japan's relative proximity to its empire compare to Britain
 
You were wondering how it would compare to the british empire, right? I was thinking it would wind up really different because of the population and economic pull of the chinese provinces as well as Japan's relative proximity to its empire compare to Britain

What I was thinking about more is rule of law related. The rules are rigged but they are followed. As long as you follow British (In this case Japanese) law you are more or less allowed to conduct your own affairs. The rules aren't totally arbitrary and you are still under the protection of the law. You aren't allowed to rape and murder the locals en masse.
 
Simple. They take China and that's it. Maybe we can push to Indonesia. But Japan only got to indochina by Vichy France, and by extension, Hitler's good graces. If japan is actually going for liberation, or are only as bad as the europeans, there's no way they're allied with the nazis. This also means that Siam or british malaya never become options.

Hell since the POD would require less crazy Hypernationalists in charge anyway(which is why it wouldnt be an axis state), Japan might reconcile with the west after the invasion of manchuria. This could actually mean that Japan joins the allies because of the big, scary, anti-colonialist, anti-monarchical bear to their north

You want a moderate but "axis" Japan? Restore the Kaiser his throne, have Willy be focused on tearing the commies down with Japan and poland by his side.

Well, to be quite honest I did think about the possibility of them joining the Axis and I wouldn’t eliminate it outright. After all, Finland was a full fledged democracy and still they fought on the Axis side because they had a common enemy. Perhaps if the Japanese got even more paranoid about the Soviets at their Manchukuo border, or if the Nomonhan/Battle of Khalkhin Gol and the other similar Soviet-Japanese border clashes had gone a bit better for the Japanese and they had decided to aid old Addie in his conquest of the USSR (perhaps under the pretext of wanting to restore to Manchukuo the territories of Outer Manchuria) then Japan may very well have found itself if not as a full fledged member of the Axis, then at least as a co-belligerent like Finland.

As for this hypothetical Japan being similar to the British Empire, I would say not really as I see these Japanese trying hard to foment rebellion in the European colonies by providing support and weapons to local insurrectionists. I can’t be 100% sure about this but imo Indonesia could very realistically be led to revolt against the Dutch given that in OTL the Indonesians were most welcoming of the Japanese invasion and collaborated the most with their occupation. So, if a colony rebels and the Japanese invade only after that (instead of first invading and then claiming to be helping some local freedom fighters that hadn’t even begun to fight yet) then I think the reaction from the West would be very different.
 
Top