What if Switzerland joined the Axis during WW2?

The OP is asking "What if they...", not "Could they ever...?"

I think posters can't get through the relative impossibility of an Axis-Swiss idea on its face. Not in this world. You'd need PODs so early as to make Switzerland a very very different country politically, ethnically, historically, etc.

IF OTOH you consider "Country X" in the place of what is today modern Switzerland then I would imagine that said region would be bypassed for most of the war, like the French-Italian Alps, parts of Yugoslavia, Albania, Denmark, and Norway. Mind, these were all Axis-occupied countries rather than Axis allies.

"Country X" would probably be in the same unenviable position of either Finland or a Spain that had DoWed the Allies. Too strong and too irrelevant to invade when the Allies/USSR had their hands full elsewhere, but God help them when the time came that the Allies/USSR's hands became free. This "Country X"/Super-ATLed Switzerland would probably collapse like Germany did after the Allies broke out into open country and ran across Germany on the Autobahn.
 
Switzerland is useful because it is the bit between Germany, France and Italy and once upon a time Austria that does not belong to any of them, once it does belong to one of them it is merely the largely useless bit in the mountains.

To be harsh

It is a very useful bit in the mountains because it controls the main transit routes between Germany and Italy, basically between northern Europe and the Mediterranean.
 

RavenMM

Banned
Let's just say they did join the axis. Could they have had much effect?

The big question is, how much gold/money from axis-enemies is stored in Switzerland? If they could get a hand on all that money, it might prove a boost for the economy.
 
Apparently the Swiss were pretty adept at shooting down German planes, shooting down 11 that were violating their airspace during the invasion of France. Their air force at 200 planes. Their standing army was minuscule, about the size of a good German division.

So, the main effect they would have had on the war is that they could have manufactured some more German aircraft under license, offered a safe place to train pilots and build munitions, and perhaps be a disastrous last redoubt for Nazis in the last days of the war depending upon the amount of Swiss collaboration.

I also wonder if it improves logistics at all into Italy, but that was not a huge problem OTL.

___

The only thing that dramatically changes ATL from OTL is if the Nazis decide to continue fighting using Switzerland as a base of operations. Perhaps Switzerland got to friendly with the germans and when their government tries to turn tail, the Nazis subjugate them like they did to Hungary. Then, when Germany is collapsing, units sand murdering SS seeking to evade capture flee to Switzerland with Hitler, Himmler, and company. If so, the war could have easily lasted into 1946, simply because not that many men would have been needed to actually hold out.

It sort of reminds me of "WI Hitler went to Norway." of course, Hitler's vanity would have not allowed him to die anywhere other than Berlin.
 
The big question is, how much gold/money from axis-enemies is stored in Switzerland? If they could get a hand on all that money, it might prove a boost for the economy.

Well after 1941, it would mean very little. Even if there were gold owned by anyone else but the Swiss central bank, I'd wager those would be insignificant amounts. Central banks liked keeping their gold were they could control it directly and evacuate if things went south.

Even if the amounts were significant, after 1941 it would be questionable with whom exactly the Axis trades with AND requires gold to pay? They pretty much bartered their way to resources needed for war. And couldn't do it anymore only once it became crystal clear they lost.
 
The only thing that dramatically changes ATL from OTL is if the Nazis decide to continue fighting using Switzerland as a base of operations. Perhaps Switzerland got to friendly with the germans and when their government tries to turn tail, the Nazis subjugate them like they did to Hungary. Then, when Germany is collapsing, units sand murdering SS seeking to evade capture flee to Switzerland with Hitler, Himmler, and company. If so, the war could have easily lasted into 1946, simply because not that many men would have been needed to actually hold out.

No. The Swiss, even occupied by diehard SS, won't do it. Remember that the Swiss are land-locked. They've got nowhere to go. Worst-comes-to-the-worst-comes-to-the-worst, the Allies can airdrop pictures of Hiroshima and Nagasaki after VJ-Day with the captions "YOU'RE NEXT!!":eek:

Fini to WWII in Europe. OR, they could just threaten them with siccing the Russians on them!:eek::p
 
Any outright occupation of Switzerland would have to get past the militia first, and given the state of the SS and Wehrmacht at the end of the war, that would be a difficult task at best.

As for the gold, you can't eat it, run it in trucks or shoot people with it, so before it becomes useful to the war effort you have to trade it, or at least ownership of it, for foreign-made goodies. Given that the Reich was rather autarchic at the best of times, by 1941-1945 the Reich wasn't trading with anyone outside the Reichzone (who were supply as much war materiel as possible already), so all that gold in the vaults would be doing nothing, except possibly driving down the value of all gold within the Reichzone.
 
Any outright occupation of Switzerland would have to get past the militia first, and given the state of the SS and Wehrmacht at the end of the war, that would be a difficult task at best.

If in ASB land Switzerland became an ally, my point is that once you are in you can't jump ship. Switzerland would ahve little effect on the course of the war, but could ahve an effect on the end. The same happened to Hungary. It is hard to kick the Germans out when they have had reserve divisions and trains running through your country for years.

So, if Switzerland decides they want out after the invasion of Italy, Germany tells them, "You and what army?" The Germans are already in the country, so they would seize every city, rail tunnel, and etcetera much like they did in Italy. It would probably move along quite smoothly.

Come the end of the war, Switzerland is "run" by a puppet, the Swiss peple like the Hungarians want to jump ship, but Germany strategically would control the country, which honestly would not take much of an occupation force due to the low population of the country. So, Germany might make Switzerland a redoubt of sorts and withdraw into the mountains. Hitler would be able to hold out for months if, in ASB land, he took this route. Heck, he probably could have lasted at least a month more in Norway if he went that route as well.
 
Seriously while Switzerland offers a credible deterrent based defence in that conquering them is more trouble than it is worth what does Switzerland actually bring to the table as a military power?

Swiss cheese? You can buy them from neutral Switzerland anyway, ditto cuckoo clocks, ditto chocolates. Even the militarily useful stuff like high quality optic lenses and precision small parts can be traded for.

As a neutral Switzerland provides a safe meeting ground for exploratory talks with an enemy that is going to pummel you. No questions asked loot storage...ahem secure banking and ultimately an escape route.

Switzerland is useful because it is the bit between Germany, France and Italy and once upon a time Austria that does not belong to any of them, once it does belong to one of them it is merely the largely useless bit in the mountains.

To be harsh
If I member correctly the Allies, I think the US bombed a ball bearing plant in Switzerland, a navigating error of course. The Allies had no desire to have them as allies it was a nice place for any people, mostly airman I guess to escape the Axis. I personally think that they did just enough and maybe less later in the war. They trade with the Axis and the Allies don't want it because they was a great amount of information.
 
If in ASB land Switzerland became an ally, my point is that once you are in you can't jump ship. Switzerland would ahve little effect on the course of the war, but could ahve an effect on the end. The same happened to Hungary. It is hard to kick the Germans out when they have had reserve divisions and trains running through your country for years.

So, if Switzerland decides they want out after the invasion of Italy, Germany tells them, "You and what army?" The Germans are already in the country, so they would seize every city, rail tunnel, and etcetera much like they did in Italy. It would probably move along quite smoothly.

Come the end of the war, Switzerland is "run" by a puppet, the Swiss people like the Hungarians want to jump ship, but Germany strategically would control the country, which honestly would not take much of an occupation force due to the low population of the country. So, Germany might make Switzerland a redoubt of sorts and withdraw into the mountains. Hitler would be able to hold out for months if, in ASB land, he took this route. Heck, he probably could have lasted at least a month more in Norway if he went that route as well.

Just HOW MANY diehard SS are available after ever last square inch of Germany (even annexed territories) have been overrun and ALL the death/concentration/labor camps have been liberated? And even the Soviets coming up to join the party? When Eisenhower tells those in Switzerland that he is closing the borders (no fleeing from the Soviets) as he did OTL, surrender comes rapid quick. Even for the SS! If the suicidal Imperial Japanese could do it, so too the Nazis. National (Swiss) Redoubts notwithstanding.

But it would be plausible for the Nazis in those circumstances to strongarm the Swiss anytime from 1945-1953, being the #1 power on the Continent.

Nazi Victorious ATL means they take Switzerland with a telegram. The Swiss will eventually starve or freeze otherwise, short of an undistracted German invasion which ends it sooner.
 
Hitler could have fled with whatever continental forces he had left, perhaps 100,000 men (which would all starve to death real soon anyway.) It would be like that movie ALive.
 
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