What if sweden had joined Denmark during the 2ed Schleswig war

As the title says, what would happen?

For my to cents, I believe Denmark would still lose just as badly as it did in otl.so I'm more curious on how this would effect Scandinavian nationalism, would a shared defeat help unify Scandinavia, maybe agents Germany aggression?

I also remember there was a chance for a Danish Prince to become the king of Sweden at some point during this period (but I can't remember the exact date so I mite be off base with this one) so Maybe if Sweden and Denmark have a shared sense of defeat would help that along as a first step for a United Scandinavia?
 
As the title says, what would happen?

For my to cents, I believe Denmark would still lose just as badly as it did in otl.so I'm more curious on how this would effect Scandinavian nationalism, would a shared defeat help unify Scandinavia, maybe agents Germany aggression?

I also remember there was a chance for a Danish Prince to become the king of Sweden at some point during this period (but I can't remember the exact date so I mite be off base with this one) so Maybe if Sweden and Denmark have a shared sense of defeat would help that along as a first step for a United Scandinavia?
I cant speak to the rest but i doubt their would be much fear of further geman aggression since the war so clearly done to prevent denmark from integrating schleswig-holstein something the Danish not only tried to do once before but were actually obligated to not do by treaty and I believe the Danish offered to have the whole of Denmark join the German confederation in order to avoid losing S-H and the Germans had no interest, it's hard to paint germans as exansionists looking for scandinavian soil when they are literally only interested in German land (keep in mind S-H were consider an inseparable legal unit at this time)
 
I also remember there was a chance for a Danish Prince to become the king of Sweden at some point during this period (but I can't remember the exact date so I mite be off base with this one) so Maybe if Sweden and Denmark have a shared sense of defeat would help that along as a first step for a United Scandinavia?

Iirc a Prince of the Augustenburg family was named Crown Prince of Sweden, but died c1810 and they chose Bernadotte instead. Had he lived and become King of Sweden, hed have had an arguable claim to the Danish crown.
 
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Iirc a Prince of the Augustenburg family was named Crown Prince of Sweden, but died c1810 and the chose Bernadotte instead. Had he lived and become King of Sweden, hed have had an arguable claim to t he Danish crown.

Ho, my bad, so I was off on my dates there.

Thanks for the response @JackLumber
 
The questions you have to ask here is what does Sweden gain by joining in a war alongside Denmark against Prussia, and are they in a position to assist Denmark at the time this war occurred? As to them 'losing just as badly', that depends on the variables above, among a plethora of other things.
 
The questions you have to ask here is what does Sweden gain by joining in a war alongside Denmark against Prussia, and are they in a position to assist Denmark at the time this war occurred? As to them 'losing just as badly', that depends on the variables above, among a plethora of other things.

Well on other threads ive read there was a treaty of aliance between Denmark and Sweden, so there was a good chance of them hoping in, and they could support denmark (it's not like it's a far distance) but neither country is a military power at this point going agenst a great power of the day, Prussia, along whith the rest of the German confederation which included austrea.

That's way I don't think even with Sweden Denmark could have won that war.
 
Well on other threads ive read there was a treaty of aliance between Denmark and Sweden, so there was a good chance of them hoping in, and they could support denmark (it's not like it's a far distance) but neither country is a military power at this point going agenst a great power of the day, Prussia, along whith the rest of the German confederation which included austrea.

That's way I don't think even with Sweden Denmark could have won that war.
Sweden seems to have had 15000 ill-trained and ill-equipped soldiers placed from Fyn to Scania that were supposed to interfere if Denmark proper was attacked.
 

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Britain, the most powerful empire at the time, feared the German war machine. That's how powerful it was. Denmark and Sweden together would still lose 8-9/10, the only times they can win being due to German incompetence or unwillingness.
 
Britain, the most powerful empire at the time, feared the German war machine. That's how powerful it was. Denmark and Sweden together would still lose 8-9/10, the only times they can win being due to German incompetence or unwillingness.
If Denmark hadn't lost Norway in 1814 it would have had greater manpower maybe.
 
If Denmark hadn't lost Norway in 1814 it would have had greater manpower maybe.

If Denmark hadn't lost Norway the Schleswig Wars wouldn't have happened, as the loss of Norway had some effects in the rest of the kingdom, which resulted in the creation of a rift between the duchies and the rest of the kingdom.
 
Britain, the most powerful empire at the time, feared the German war machine. That's how powerful it was. Denmark and Sweden together would still lose 8-9/10, the only times they can win being due to German incompetence or unwillingness.

What "German war machine"? In 1864 Britain had no concerns about either Prussia or Austria. It was France and Russia that she worried about.
 
Seems like people are more talking about the feasibility of the WI when they really should be focusing on what happens after the OP's prompt...
 
Seems like people are more talking about the feasibility of the WI when they really should be focusing on what happens after the OP's prompt...


Is here a lot to talk about? Basically the answer to the OP is that Denmark still loses and things go much the same.
 
Is here a lot to talk about? Basically the answer to the OP is that Denmark still loses and things go much the same.

Oh, I must have missed the memo. I thought the consensus was "Why does Sweden care?" (irrelevant since this is a WI not a PC) not "Denmark still loses and things go much the same" (which does answer it)
 
Is here a lot to talk about? Basically the answer to the OP is that Denmark still loses and things go much the same.
Because there was this thing called Scandinavism/Pan-Scandinavism/Nordism/Pan-Nordism.
Which in its mid-19th century sort of died with the Second Schlesvig War.

The subject here is, I believe, not "How hard would United Scandinavia stomp Prussia and Friends?",
but "Where does the Pan-Scandinavian Idea go from there?". "There" being having fought together
against (and been stomped together by) the German Confederation.

Although I'm not sure it goes much further than it did in OTL even with a shared defeat.
 
Because there was this thing called Scandinavism/Pan-Scandinavism/Nordism/Pan-Nordism.
Which in its mid-19th century sort of died with the Second Schlesvig War.

The subject here is, I believe, not "How hard would United Scandinavia stomp Prussia and Friends?",
but "Where does the Pan-Scandinavian Idea go from there?". "There" being having fought together
against (and been stomped together by) the German Confederation.

Although I'm not sure it goes much further than it did in OTL even with a shared defeat.

I gust had in idea that if sweden had supported Denmark (even if they lose) pan-scandavnisum would get a bost, but bast on the replys on this thread it appears to not be to likely.
 
I gust had in idea that if sweden had supported Denmark (even if they lose) pan-scandavnisum would get a bost, but bast on the replys on this thread it appears to not be to likely.
From my understanding, there would be hurdles for anything major. Even Norway already had its own parliament and government by this point, only being in personal union with Sweden. It might be possible for a military alliance to form, but the main issue is the different geopolitical situations of Sweden and Denmark. This war all but showed Denmark that there was really no point in maintaining an effective army as there was really no way they could hold off the Germans, so 'what's the point?' Sweden maintained an armed neutrality, which might seem the same but Denmark is far more likely to be invaded than Sweden. A military alliance would mean that Sweden would then be compelled to come to Denmark's aid.

And as most have said, even all the Scandinavian countries together can't even really challenge even the Prussian coalition of this time, much less than later German Empire. The Scandinavian countries were still quite poor at this time, and even together I'm not sure they could even be a true secondary power on the level of say, Romania. Meanwhile all the Scandinavian countries learned during the Napoleonic Wars just what happens when minor powers allow themselves to be caught between Great Powers (all of them basically got screwed during the wars, and were all but disregarded by the Great Powers during the Congress of Vienna besides arranging things to satisfy the balance of power). So Sweden and Norway have little reason to raise their risk of being forced into a war by forming a military alliance with Denmark.

It might be possible, although I admit I'm probably not the best person to judge. The 2nd Schleswig War all but caused the adjustment policy of Denmark to appease Germany. If Sweden-Norway had sent aid, even if they lost, it might might have increased the perception among the Danes that if nothing else maintaining an effective military could deter any casual invasions or at least hold with Sweden-Norway long enough for foreign aid to come. However this is still predicated on the needed guarantee that Sweden-Norway would come to their aid in such an event, something difficult to achieve since Charles XV in the Schleswig War made promises to do so but ultimately saw the danger of the proposition.

Scandinavianism is often interesting during times like the Winter War or World War II where there is a perception that greater cooperation could have had an effect to their benefit, although the Winter War is more pan-Nordic, but really a more successful Scandinavianism movement would likely prevent such situations in the first place.

More likely than a military alliance is more economic integration. Norway and Sweden were bleeding people to the US during the second half of the 19th century. Greater sense of Scandinavianism alongside hopes of cooperation might encourage more to stay, and there might have been some possibility that more cooperation could lead to earlier industrialization. They already did pretty good in regards to language, so I'm not sure much would change there. The different languages are more for national pride, and are still similar enough for relative ease of communication. As for politically. Still doubt there'd be any real unification, and Norway is still probably going to break the personal union with Sweden. You might however make it a more agreeable split, since despite avoiding conflict there was still something of an diplomatic snafu between Norway and Sweden when they split. An earlier Nordic Council would probably be the best a pan-Scandinavia movement could achieve. Maybe later you could have them unify their foreign policy and defense after an alt-WWI, the US actually put an end to some minor discussions for this OTL on behalf of NATO, but its very unlikely that any of them would give up their sovereignty for a real union. A pan-Scandinavian parliament-forum for cooperation alongside a lifelong alliance seems pretty extensive already.

Although one potential political effect might be in regards to North Schleswig. In the treaty ending the war, Denmark had the Germans agree to a vote that would allow North Schleswig to vote whether it wanted to return to Denmark. Prussia and Austria just didn't do it, and so it wasn't till after WWI that the vote went through and it returned to Denmark. If Sweden-Norway sided with Denmark in presurring them to allow the vote, it could have potentially been returned to Denmark decades earlier.
 
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