What if Spartacus left Italy to found a kingdom in Germania

Essentially the idea is Spartacus goes to eastern Germania specifically the polish region with his army and founds a kingdom what would be the consequences of this considering a lot of the slaves were quite educated.
 
He got to Northern Italy and could have kept going, but for an unknown reason headed south. Crossing the Alps could be difficult.
 

trajen777

Banned
They would have had to fight their way north thru multi german tribes, however many of their troops were german. Anyway they would have a good prob of forming a good size country.
1 roman discipline and arms
2 good leadership
3 wide range of economic skills, farming, etc
4 logistically very difficult and economically unfavorable for Romans to win
 
All those slaves wanted was to go back home, they couldn’t cross the Alps, so Spartacus tried to arrange for the Cilician pirates to give them passage in Southern Italy, the pirates duped him and he got stuck. Even if his “army” could have stuck together throug the whole journey, which they couldn't since they split repeatedly even when they were in Italy, why would they remotely consider going to a largely uncharted territory, amongst a multitude of hostile tribes to found a kingdom, of all things, instead of going back home like they could have possibly done if they had managed to cross the Alps?
 
Once outside immediate danger (wherever and whenever they considered it safe) a good deal of slaves would probably go their own way trying to make it back to their home regions. Not all of them would choose to return home, since it was really likely that their homelands were conquered by Rome (Spain, Greece, Italia), that they were born a slave without a home, and that it was near impossible for large groups to find help while staying hidden from the Roman authorities. As for the Alps they'd probably go east through the Isonzo valley, the traditional route of invasion in and out of Italy due to ease of travel, or risk a good deal of them dying in the Alps. A cynical move and one quite frankly outside of his control was to let Crixus' smaller army of slaves pillage and distract the Romans in southern Italy when Spartacus escaped.

I'd like to point out, that Rome was formerly a simple village of castaways and bandits at its founding; should Spartacus manage these slaves well he'd have a clear military superiority over the local Germanic, Dacian (difficult since this was when Burebista united them and starting expanding), or Illyrians tribes depending on where he went. The main thing was to keep moving far enough to be a bother for the Romans, who will eventually lose interest as they devolve into civil wars. The hard part would be to rule, funny thing is the slaves were probably as skilled if not better than the Romans at this point; considering how much the Roman Senate delegated to them.

For reference here's a map of the Empire decade after, the changes are the inclusion of Pontus, Judea, and the gallic wars:
790px-Mondo_romano_nel_56_aC_al_tempo_del_primo_triumvirato.png


As for the society that could come up, I'd imagine a highly martial society; after all Spartacus and the gladiators trained all the men, women, and children for war while in Italy. The society would be more gender-equal since women are soldiers as well, whether they continued this tradition or not is debatable but since they are displacing populated lands they'll probably keep it for at least a generation out of necessity.

By simple contrast the new polity would be more equitable and egalitarian; there aren't hard institutions of power yet but in comparison to the soon to be emperor who owns 50-70% of all the wealth with senators and the rich that owned the rest it will be more equitable. Adding to the equality would be the fact that all the initial citizens are militarily trained if armed to varying degrees. By necessity they'd have to be rural, most of the ancient world was with the exception of Italy later. At the same time they'd need to be able to coordinate their efforts in war. Dunno maybe a confederation if centralization fails?

Who knows, maybe they'll stratify into a new slave owning aristocracy, some sort of military republic where citizenship comes from service, it really depends on their initial decade or so. One things for sure; unless they are in Dacia they won't be on a lucrative trade route/resource but still relatively well off-especially compared to the average impoverished Roman citizen. Yes the North is colder, but the soils of the Danube and Germania (not Swabia) are black and rich; clearing them would be a gradual process spanning decades yet definitely doable and rewarding. Considering the lack of fortifications in the North the border was porous and there will probably be inform trade to the locals and Romans along the frontier.

In terms of slave policy it is really questionable, there's still a place for slavery and yet they never explicitly declared against it; yet I'd imagine that the ex-slaves would have more moral qualms about it compared to most of the ancient world. As for Roman policy it'll be hostile, at least until the civil wars and the current generation forgets. I don't think they'll instill uprisings or accept slaves overtly just to maintain relations with Rome.
 
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Once outside immediate danger (wherever and whenever they considered it safe) a good deal of slaves would probably go their own way trying to make it back to their home regions. Not all of them would choose to return home, since it was really likely that their homelands were conquered by Rome (Spain, Greece, Italia), that they were born a slave without a home, and that it was near impossible for large groups to find help while staying hidden from the Roman authorities. As for the Alps they'd probably go east through the Isonzo valley, the traditional route of invasion in and out of Italy due to ease of travel, or risk a good deal of them dying in the Alps. A cynical move and one quite frankly outside of his control was to let Crixus' smaller army of slaves pillage and distract the Romans in southern Italy when Spartacus escaped.

I'd like to point out, that Rome was formerly a simple village of castaways and bandits at its founding; should Spartacus manage these slaves well he'd have a clear military superiority over the local Germanic, Dacian (difficult since this was when Burebista united them and starting expanding), or Illyrians tribes depending on where he went. The main thing was to keep moving far enough to be a bother for the Romans, who will eventually lose interest as they devolve into civil wars. The hard part would be to rule, funny thing is the slaves were probably as skilled if not better than the Romans at this point; considering how much the Roman Senate delegated to them.

For reference here's a map of the Empire decade after, the changes are the inclusion of Pontus, Judea, and the gallic wars:
790px-Mondo_romano_nel_56_aC_al_tempo_del_primo_triumvirato.png


As for the society that could come up, I'd imagine a highly martial society; after all Spartacus and the gladiators trained all the men, women, and children for war while in Italy. The society would be more gender-equal since women are soldiers as well, whether they continued this tradition or not is debatable but since they are displacing populated lands they'll probably keep it for at least a generation out of necessity.

By simple contrast the new polity would be more equitable and egalitarian; there aren't hard institutions of power yet but in comparison to the soon to be emperor who owns 50-70% of all the wealth with senators and the rich that owned the rest it will be more equitable. Adding to the equality would be the fact that all the initial citizens are militarily trained if armed to varying degrees. By necessity they'd have to be rural, most of the ancient world was with the exception of Italy later. At the same time they'd need to be able to coordinate their efforts in war. Dunno maybe a confederation if centralization fails?

Who knows, maybe they'll stratify into a new slave owning aristocracy, some sort of military republic where citizenship comes from service, it really depends on their initial decade or so. One things for sure; unless they are in Dacia they won't be on a lucrative trade route/resource but still relatively well off-especially compared to the average impoverished Roman citizen. Yes the North is colder, but the soils of the Danube and Germania (not Swabia) are black and rich; clearing them would be a gradual process spanning decades yet definitely doable and rewarding. Considering the lack of fortifications in the North the border was porous and there will probably be inform trade to the locals and Romans along the frontier.

In terms of slave policy it is really questionable, there's still a place for slavery and yet they never explicitly declared against it; yet I'd imagine that the ex-slaves would have more moral qualms about it compared to most of the ancient world. As for Roman policy it'll be hostile, at least until the civil wars and the current generation forgets. I don't think they'll instill uprisings or accept slaves overtly just to maintain relations with Rome.

Most of the slaves were Gauls, Germans and Thracians, and their homelands were very much unconquered yet, plus, saying that Spain was entirely subdued is also a big stretch, Sertorius had just died, but Spanish resistance to Roman rule was still ongoing, and it would last until 19 BCE. I doubt Spartacus had more than a handful of slaves from Greece in his ranks, Greek slaves were mostly employed in rich households, and they were decently treated, for the most part, they had no incentive to join Spartacus. Those who did join him were the same dispossessed Italian farmers that had probably joined Sertorius early on, and I highly doubt they’d settle in cold and unknown lands with a bunch of barbarians, if anything they’d rather join Mithridates in the East.

But, assuming everybody is on board with this most outlandish idea of founding a kingdom instead of going home, they simply don’t have the numbers, enemy tribes would overwhelm them and it’d be over before it began. Rome took hundreds of years to even become a city state in a relatively stable territory, and you’d want Spartacus to found a kingdom from scratch in a territory where hordes were constantly shifting from place to place at random moments? Good luck with that.
 
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