What if Spain and Portugal trade Philippines for Brazil?

raharris1973

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…If it were to happen, it would most likely happen under period of Philipp II’s rule and unification. Say in the early 1580s, in part to keep his subjects from squabbling, and to make things more "tidy" King Philipp decides Spain should have a monopoly on the New World colonies and Portugal should have a monopoly on the East Asia - West Pacific colonies. This would still be in the very early years of colonization in both countries.

Long-term impact…Philippines will have elements resembling Macau and East Timor culturally. The islands may be renamed after Portuguese independence restored, to the Braganzas or to the Joaos, the Henriques or the Magellans.

This Portuguese influence creates the chance that independent kingdoms/sultanates may survive longer in the islands, or that all or part of the archipelago, including Luzon and Manila, falls to the Dutch. (then who knows what happens in anglo-dutch wars. Philippines are more multicultural, a little less inquisition-y, with more exchanges with the Indian subcontinent and Africa.And leading possibly to more Tagals/Malays being involved in Africa.

In Brazil, the south develops along the lines of Argentina and Uruguay. The northwest European powers probably still take te Guyana coast.The north may be less developed. Forces of climate and profit, may drive a focus on plantation slavery and sugar much like OTL’s, in which case the Spanis crown is poorly positioned to profit from the slave trade in comparison to Dutch, English, Portuguese and even French traders.

Alternatively, sugar plantations may be less extensive, the church and missions may own more of the land, and the emphasis may stay more of mining and ranching and forestry as opposed to sugar growing.

Portugal also keeps much more of its population without Brazil becoming as established as *the* wide open frontier in the Portuguese consciousness. Castille however, may see a proportionate rise in emigration.
 
More likely the Dutch would have gone conquering the Philippines in any kind of wars, or the British would have purchased them. IOTL, the Ottoman Turks had launched an expedition in Aceh so they could have expanded their campaign to include the Philippines and to a lesser extent, Brunei. Other than that, I could also see more interaction between SE Asia and the Mughals if Portugal controlled them. Culture wise, you'd see soccer stars in the Philippines with a Ronaldinho-analogue instead of basketball stars like Jaworski.
 
…If it were to happen, it would most likely happen under period of Philipp II’s rule and unification. Say in the early 1580s, in part to keep his subjects from squabbling, and to make things more "tidy" King Philipp decides Spain should have a monopoly on the New World colonies and Portugal should have a monopoly on the East Asia - West Pacific colonies. This would still be in the very early years of colonization in both countries.

Long-term impact…Philippines will have elements resembling Macau and East Timor culturally. The islands may be renamed after Portuguese independence restored, to the Braganzas or to the Joaos, the Henriques or the Magellans.

This Portuguese influence creates the chance that independent kingdoms/sultanates may survive longer in the islands, or that all or part of the archipelago, including Luzon and Manila, falls to the Dutch. (then who knows what happens in anglo-dutch wars. Philippines are more multicultural, a little less inquisition-y, with more exchanges with the Indian subcontinent and Africa.And leading possibly to more Tagals/Malays being involved in Africa.

In Brazil, the south develops along the lines of Argentina and Uruguay. The northwest European powers probably still take te Guyana coast.The north may be less developed. Forces of climate and profit, may drive a focus on plantation slavery and sugar much like OTL’s, in which case the Spanis crown is poorly positioned to profit from the slave trade in comparison to Dutch, English, Portuguese and even French traders.

Alternatively, sugar plantations may be less extensive, the church and missions may own more of the land, and the emphasis may stay more of mining and ranching and forestry as opposed to sugar growing.

Portugal also keeps much more of its population without Brazil becoming as established as *the* wide open frontier in the Portuguese consciousness. Castille however, may see a proportionate rise in emigration.

Most likely the Northern part of the Philippines will be conquered by Brunei(reconquered by Brunei), Dutch or Brits, while the Central Philippines and the OTL Spanish controled Southern Philippines will most likely stay under the Portuguese or less likely fall under the dutch, the Central-Southern Philippines will have a worse treatment under the dutch, they will be most likely targets for genocide like what happened to the people of Maluku because they are more loyal to the Spanish compared to the people of Northern Philippines who are rebellious and the Macabebe scouts and the Spanish allied nobility were the reason why the Spanish are able to held the Northern Philippines for hundreds of years.
 
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…If it were to happen, it would most likely happen under period of Philipp II’s rule and unification. Say in the early 1580s, in part to keep his subjects from squabbling, and to make things more "tidy" King Philipp decides Spain should have a monopoly on the New World colonies and Portugal should have a monopoly on the East Asia - West Pacific colonies.

Woo... messy. :p The king can't just decide that!
If there's no consent from the Portuguese Cortes, Philip will lose a great deal of his support base in Portugal and this incomprehensibly dick move may sparkle an early revolution.
 
If its early on, access to Chinese goods is the whole point of colonies, the Spanish elites aren't going to accept any such deal making, especially when Brazil is an unknown value and offers nothing the existing New World colonies don't offer. The Castelians fought to keep the Aragonese out of the colonies, they're not going to cede anything to Portugal.
 
An easier way to get a Spanish Brazil and a Portuguese Philippines (at least on paper) is having the first proposal of the Tordesillas line stand.
 
Spain would never cede the Philippines, specially to Portugal. The Philippines value was not as a colony, but as a trading post for China, to oppose Portuguese domination in Macao. Brasil, while nice, does not give Spain anything than they cannot get from the rest of America.

Unless they get to keep an important trade port in Asia, they will hold on the islands.
 
ITTL the Spanish American War is different. There is no Battle of Manilla.Dewey remains far from the action and remains unknown.The US does not take over the Phillipines. Paul V McNutt does not become High Commissioner to the Phillipines. I don't know what job Roosevelt gives him. t The Japanese attack the Phillipines and Portugal becomes involved in World War II. I assume the Phillipines get Thier independence in 1975 The date of Brazil's independence remains the same give or take a year or so but it becomes a republic not an Empire.
 

Japhy

Banned
ITTL the Spanish American War is different. There is no Battle of Manilla.Dewey remains far from the action and remains unknown.The US does not take over the Phillipines. Paul V McNutt does not become High Commissioner to the Phillipines. I don't know what job Roosevelt gives him. t The Japanese attack the Phillipines and Portugal becomes involved in World War II. I assume the Phillipines get Thier independence in 1975 The date of Brazil's independence remains the same give or take a year or so but it becomes a republic not an Empire.

Its like you're some South American Logger trying to destroy all the butterfly habitats you can.
 
If its early on, access to Chinese goods is the whole point of colonies, the Spanish elites aren't going to accept any such deal making, especially when Brazil is an unknown value and offers nothing the existing New World colonies don't offer. The Castelians fought to keep the Aragonese out of the colonies, they're not going to cede anything to Portugal.

Maybe, they will give up the Philippines if the Northern part was not weak enough to be conquered by the Spanish, I actually have a thread about that.

https://www.alternatehistory.com/discussion/showthread.php?t=198697
 
Dutch Brazil would be a super Suriname not a settler colony of Netherlands.

But if it was...

That would be amazing, and I could see the same thing happening to Dutch Brasil as happened to Portugese Brasil.

The United Kingdoms of The Netherlands and Brasil? Wonder if it would survive (probably not, because no country wants to be ruled by one 1/10 its size. Especially if its developed enough to defeat them militarily.
 
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