What if Prussia lost the Franco-Prussian war

What would have happened if Prussia/Germany lost the Franco-Prussian war? Or at least if they lost the equivalent of the Franco-Prussian war as I am not certain it was possible for them to lose that war. I am asking because of this thread, where France got southern Belgium and was more industrialised at the moment of the war, so it doesn't need to be the exact same Franco-Prussian war. It must at least be a war between France and Germany/most of Germany at the middle of the 19th century.


France no doubt would want some part of Germany. What would they demand, all of the rhineland? Just part of it, like the saarland, Palatinate, (Luxembourg)?
What effect would it have on the German unification? Would it halt it, creating a northern German federation and a southern German unification? Or would it strengthen German unification out of fear of France? Would Prussian influence in such a germany be less strong as they just lost a large part of Prussia to France (assuming France wanted all of it)?
 
How bad a loss are we talking about? Is it a stalemate or is France able to invade and occupy large parts of Germany? Are the combatants on the same level as they were OTL industrially? Territorially? Politically?
 
How bad a loss are we talking about? Is it a stalemate or is France able to invade and occupy large parts of Germany? Are the combatants on the same level as they were OTL industrially? Territorially? Politically?

Good questions. Let's first assume that Germany is in the exact same state as it was OTL before the war. For France we assume that in scenario 1 is the exact same size as OTL. Politicaly Napoleon III is its ruler. Industially more or less the same.
So for scenario 1a: Prussia/Germany invades France. France manages to drive them out of France and enters the border regions of Germany. Germany starts to lose and notices French superiority and decides to sue for peace.
Scenario 1b: France easily defeats Prussia/Germany and maanages to occupy a large part of Germany. Germany surrenders.

Because the thread was inspired by a France that controls the southern part of belgium let's make that scenario 2. In this scenario France is more industrialized as OTL.
So we get scenario 2a:prussia/Germany invades France. France manages to drive them out of France and enters the border regions of Germany. Germany starts to lose and notices French superiority and decides to sue for peace.
and scenario 2b: France easily defeats Prussia/Germany and maanages to occupy a large part of Germany. Germany surrenders.
 
I’m not sure how much European territory France would want/get, if any.

The cause of the Franco-Prussian war of course was Emperor Napoleon’s reaction to a snotty telegram and hysterical media reaction; it was more a case of wounded pride rather than any genuine territorial or abused citizen grievance. I think that if the French armies, rather than holing themselves up in their fortresses, mobilised quickly and met the Prussians on the battlefield, could easily sweep the Kaiser’s armies out of France. This might well cause the non German Confederation membership to wobble, switch sides or declare neutrality. Denmark and Austria might even enter the war, desiring to regain lost territories after seeing that the Prussians aren’t invincible.

France would probably want the Prussians to agree not to nominate their candidates for the Spanish throne, renounce any claims on Southern Germany and maybe even hand back conquered territory to Denmark & Austria (depending on what they were doing at the time). France might also demand some sort of indemnity but I doubt whether their territorial claims would extend beyond the Rhine.
 
This have been up a couple of times - in light of your other thread I wouldn't expect a much different outcome if the war goes off as OTL.
Get rid of Nap. III or have the war happen at some later time in which the French have had time to redress the army.

In such a scenario Denmark may very well like to join in on the Germans to get Slesvig back - no more no less at this time. And no referendum making for the future German nagging.

If the Germans lose as drawn up Bismarck might just have his empire anyway with the German princes queing up for a revanche but being the shrewd politician he might just go for referendums - vox populi - to get endeared by the British and back it up by the united German armies.
Interesting.
 

yourworstnightmare

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If the war goes bad, the South Germans would not be that interrested to join with Prussia anymore. Perhaps a South German Federation would be born??
 
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