What if Peter the Great was killed by Sophia?

As I'm sure many of those knowledgeable about Russian History knows, Peter the Great was (arguably) one of Russia's most important leaders, ranging from his massive modernizations to the establishment of Russia as not only a major player in European politics, but an Imperial Power as well.

However, Russia in his early reign was ruled by a Co-Czar, Ivan V, and the crown regent Sophia. Sophia had exiled Peter early in his life in a temporary coup, before he came back with a stronger military force. But what would happen if that military force was defeated/she killed him instead/whatever?

How does this affect Colonial, European, and modern history as a whole?
 
Well in that case she would have ruled as regent for Ivan until his eventual death due to his deteriorating health and mental issues. After that with the backing of the military and streltsy she could have conceivably become Czar.

I don't if she had any military ambitions outside of campaigns against the Turks in Crimea. Perhaps she could have prevailed as Peter eventually did. But she would have no doubt continued the military organization, and modernization, possibly removing the streltsy since they were becoming obviously uncontrollable. For the most part I think she'll focus on internal development and growth. Less chance of Sweden getting their door kicked with Europe looking a far more quiet Russian neighbor.
 
Well in that case she would have ruled as regent for Ivan until his eventual death due to his deteriorating health and mental issues. After that with the backing of the military and streltsy she could have conceivably become Czar.

I don't if she had any military ambitions outside of campaigns against the Turks in Crimea. Perhaps she could have prevailed as Peter eventually did. But she would have no doubt continued the military organization, and modernization, possibly removing the streltsy since they were becoming obviously uncontrollable. For the most part I think she'll focus on internal development and growth. Less chance of Sweden getting their door kicked with Europe looking a far more quiet Russian neighbor.
Here's a question: What does Ivan do? Does he avenge his brother? Does he leave things as is? If he avenges, then what would he be doing?

Also, how does this affect the Romanov line? I know Peter was big on the German brides, and obviously a new lineage, seeing that Alexai (am I spelling it right?) was the crown prince and (something) prevented him from inheriting Peter's throne.
 
Here's a question: What does Ivan do? Does he avenge his brother? Does he leave things as is? If he avenges, then what would he be doing?

Also, how does this affect the Romanov line? I know Peter was big on the German brides, and obviously a new lineage, seeing that Alexai (am I spelling it right?) was the crown prince and (something) prevented him from inheriting Peter's throne.

Half-brother. And also, Ivan was severely autistic, myopic and sickly, so I don't know if he'll do much. But most likely, with no Petya, Sofia doesn't start stressing about the fact that Ivan and his wife, Praskovia, don't have children yet. Or because all those kids are female, she has Praskovia removed in order to bring in a czarina who can give him a son. As to being czar herself, I don't think Sofia would go that far. Yes, she's remembered as the bogatyr-czarevna and she was the first unmarried Russian imperial female to leave the terem, but she's not Ivan's eldest sister. And if Russia considered her leaving the terem scandalous, one can only imagine how they might consider her being crowned as her imperial majesty in Moscow.
 
Here's a question: What does Ivan do? Does he avenge his brother? Does he leave things as is? If he avenges, then what would he be doing?

Also, how does this affect the Romanov line? I know Peter was big on the German brides, and obviously a new lineage, seeing that Alexai (am I spelling it right?) was the crown prince and (something) prevented him from inheriting Peter's throne.

Well Ivan really "wasn't all there mentally" so there really won't be a problem there of any avenging. Sofia, if she doesn't go all out and declare herself empress, will definitely attempt to rule behind the scenes through Ivan's children after he's passed. I would think Cixi in many ways in regards to Sofias no doubt perpetual regency.

As for poor poor Alexei... he was in many ways the son Peter never wanted. His line of thinking worlds apart from Peters, and as much I admire the man he most likely was glad to remove him in favor of a more European minded heir.
 
Alright, so without Peter, what occurs with:
- The Navy (Is Saint Petersberg/Something Similar even built?)
- Sweden (and Poltava, obviously)
- Future lines
- The Enlightenment (Constitution!)
- Wars (Especially WWI and Napoleon, does he even invade TTL?)
- Russian Revolution(s) (Does it(they) occur? The tipping point was WWI, but it was many grievances against the government that triggered it(them).)
- The General Line
- The Boyars
- Economic and Social Development (y'know, the thing with the ol' press and the beards?)
 

PhilippeO

Banned
Peter death would certainly give Russia massive set-back for short-term, there would be no Russian modernization launched by Peter.

the question is what happened in long-term? there had been several threat about Peter death before, it seems because of Peter successor is mediocre and Russia had stagnated after Peter death, there are argument that in the long run (100 years or more) after Peter death, eventually Russia would get its reform and modernization, and Russia would be roughly at same level of development.

on the other hand, sometime success and failure in history had cascading/snowballing effect. delaying Russia success even for several decade could result in fatal disaster that ended with Russia treated as Asian despotism, and ended up colonized by other European countries.

impossible to know without writing TL about it, i think.
 
Peter the Great's death could actually be a significant boon for Russia. Perhaps not in terms of immediate military strength and power, but it could lead to a much more healthy and stable country later on.

"The Great" was a huge exaggeration, if perhaps not an outright lie. Peter greatly tightened and strengthened serfdom, which had grievous consequences for both the life of the average citizen and the economy as such; badly neglected local administration, giving rise to levels of corruption, abuse and plain inefficiency that proved almost impossible to eradicate later; discouraged private economic initative in various ways; developed a huge, bloated bureaucracy which functioned as an almost impenetrable wall between the Court and the people (and which directly screwed up many of his successors' attempts at reform), sowed the seeds of a massive cultural alienation...the list of his screwups is a long one, and would probably be twice as long if written by someone with a more in-depth knowledge of Russian history. You could easily say that the Russian Empire eventually collapsed because of the burden of Peter's poisonous legacy - not in spite of him.
 
Alright, so without Peter, what occurs with:
- The Navy (Is Saint Petersberg/Something Similar even built?)
- Sweden (and Poltava, obviously)
- Future lines
- The Enlightenment (Constitution!)
- Wars (Especially WWI and Napoleon, does he even invade TTL?)
- Russian Revolution(s) (Does it(they) occur? The tipping point was WWI, but it was many grievances against the government that triggered it(them).)
- The General Line
- The Boyars
- Economic and Social Development (y'know, the thing with the ol' press and the beards?)

Attacking these questions point by point
-I really don't think there'll be much of a navy compared to OTL mostly I think Sofia will focus land wise. If a St. Petersburg analogue is built it'll probabaly be created on the Black Sea. Though the heart of all Russia will be centered on Moscow as always.
- Sweden won't have much to worry about with a Russia ruled by Sofia as the Tsardom will be less Westward focused and definitely inwards. Though doesn't guarantee they won't see weakness and attack.
- Future line will probabaly be Ivan's. Perhaps Sofia will force a second marriage in order to have him get the needed son?
-not so sure with the enlightenment in terms of a constitution since Russia will definitely be less receptive to all things European but they'll probabaly take pieces of it.
- Definitely up in the air if Napoleon will even exist. Same for WW1
-Any revolution will depend on how the Tsars adapt as the years go.
-What do you mean by General Line?
-Sofia was definitely less confrontational with the Boyars than Peter and more willing to work with them, so perhaps you'll see a far more entrenched system for them as it's always been. Then again you could have another rebellion and Sofia simply suppresses them like Peter. Really depends on developing events.
-Social will perhaps see Russia finding a middle ground in terms of the trickling of European thought with traditional Russian ways of thinking. For a good while though definitely less foreign more everything Russian. Beards Good Shaving Bad. Economic will be far more likely be steady growth and development thank OTL since Sofia seemed to favor that during her Regency OTL over military expansion.
 
Peter essentially forced Russia as a European state both on Europe and his own subjects. Without him Russia remains more or less Oriental in nature and ambitions, a bit of outsider. Modernization will continue, slower but steady, and exchange of thoughts and ideas are assured, just less drastic. Economically and demographically it is likely better off without Peter, in that aspect he was a disaster. The rest depends on Sofia's successors. Russia could modernize further, be less expansionist perhaps (though Crimean Tatar raiding problem had to be dealt with, so wars with Turkey are inevitable). It is unlikely to industrialize by it's own power or early to be a major player of industrial era, but probably will stand it's ground. It is also not unlikely to follow a path not dissimilar to OTL Ottomans - several attempts in modernization, ultimately unsuccessful, then violent disruption (as a consequence of a lost war or social/nationalist unrest or all together) and reform as a modern state, holding only core Russian speaking territory.

TTL *Napoleon probably won't be interested in Russia much, no more then in Ottomans. Relations with German state(s) will depend on the fate of Poland, which in TTL may likely survive unless completely overrun by Germany/Austria/Sweden. If it survives, it will probably be a major regional player and may interfere with Russia a lot.
 
IF Peter dies in 1689 by some stray Strelets bullet... well, Russia IS screwed. While Sophia's regency can keep things stable for a bit, Ivan will still die like OTL, and then...well, say hey to Times of Troubles 2.0. What will emerge from this - God only knows.
 
The Swedes will be much stronger without getting their military mangled at Poltava. They might not see a threat in a weaker Russia not led by Peter. If they do attack, a less competent general(or delegator, in Peters case-he seemed to like picking talented generals to actually command while personally serving in the lower ranks) might do something stupid, like attack the Swedes head on instead of letting General Winter do his worst.
 

longsword14

Banned
The Swedes will be much stronger without getting their military mangled at Poltava. They might not see a threat in a weaker Russia not led by Peter. If they do attack, a less competent general(or delegator, in Peters case-he seemed to like picking talented generals to actually command while personally serving in the lower ranks) might do something stupid, like attack the Swedes head on instead of letting General Winter do his worst.
Forget Poltava, severe pummeling as received by the Russians could very well force them not to try for some time. Peter tried several times and was often beaten badly but the Swedes were never able to put them down. If the Russian crown is not as determined or is forced to step back after a defeat like Narva then the Swedes get some breathing room.
 
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Attacking these questions point by point
-I really don't think there'll be much of a navy compared to OTL mostly I think Sofia will focus land wise. If a St. Petersburg analogue is built it'll probabaly be created on the Black Sea. Though the heart of all Russia will be centered on Moscow as always.
- Sweden won't have much to worry about with a Russia ruled by Sofia as the Tsardom will be less Westward focused and definitely inwards. Though doesn't guarantee they won't see weakness and attack.
- Future line will probabaly be Ivan's. Perhaps Sofia will force a second marriage in order to have him get the needed son?
-not so sure with the enlightenment in terms of a constitution since Russia will definitely be less receptive to all things European but they'll probabaly take pieces of it.
- Definitely up in the air if Napoleon will even exist. Same for WW1
-Any revolution will depend on how the Tsars adapt as the years go.
-What do you mean by General Line?
-Sofia was definitely less confrontational with the Boyars than Peter and more willing to work with them, so perhaps you'll see a far more entrenched system for them as it's always been. Then again you could have another rebellion and Sofia simply suppresses them like Peter. Really depends on developing events.
-Social will perhaps see Russia finding a middle ground in terms of the trickling of European thought with traditional Russian ways of thinking. For a good while though definitely less foreign more everything Russian. Beards Good Shaving Bad. Economic will be far more likely be steady growth and development thank OTL since Sofia seemed to favor that during her Regency OTL over military expansion.
Already answered, I meant the general line of succession, without realizing I'd already asked. My bad!
 
No Peter and no expansion towards the Baltics mean that Denmark and Poland faces Sweden alone. IF they attack as OTL then we will se the Swedish army standing in the heart of Poland and getting a peace around 1703 IMO. 4 years extra struggle was mostly because Russia took part. Sweden then is free to interween in the war of Spanish succession if they want. Russia will not be intrested in facing a victorius Sweden if they havent been at war for almost 50 years and Sweden have taken a bite of Poland and maybe taken Norway from Denmark. If Russia does attack it will be the unmodernised army that got crushed at Narva and without Peter to build from what he has seen in the western countries we will se several Narvas before Russia and Sweden make some sort of peace. In this scenario i can easily see Sweden annexing Norway and streching all the way to Courland. Poland gets eaten by Sweden, Austria and Preussia. Sweden will be forced to have a large standing army and no peacefull age between 1721 and 1741 up to 1809. IF Russia continues to be backwards i can see Sweden carving out Novgorod as a semiindependent country of some sort and Austria expanding into ukraine. Who knows, maybe the Ottomans recover and push north into Russian territory?
 
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