What if Obama had chosen HRC to be his 2008 VP candidate?

As the tin says, what if Obama had chosen Hillary Rodham Clinton to be his running mate in 2008 instead of Joe Biden? Assuming the team won, do you think she would have taken a more active role in trying to get legislation passed? Maybe she counsels Obama against trying to compromise too much with the republicans early on? Who would be a good SecState in this scenario?
 
She'd be better placed to influence Obama's domestic policy. Obama's inexperience showed in the first few months and Vice President Clinton would be well poised to avoid that.

Maybe Kerry would get the nod for SecState earlier than OTL

That sounds likely.

Conceivably, Obama's second SoS could be another person with considerable foreign policy experience, like Tim Kaine.
 

Deleted member 1487

Clearly he would have an unfortunate accident and HRC would become president within 90 days.

Seriously though I don't think he could have because apparently even to this day the Clintons still resent Obama for winning (if the hacked Colin Powell emails are true). There was too much bad blood and grudges at the time for it to work and part of what attracted Obama to Biden was their ability to get along and work together. Clinton is too ambitious to play second fiddle in a vestigial office, even if it was set up to make her the next president; really SoS was better for her ambitions, as it filled in gaps in her resume and meant she had actually responsibilities, rather than being the president's cheerleader and oft-ignored advisor on minor issues. I honest think HRC would have quietly turned down the offer.
 
Already edited with a serious response, but it should be obvious that was a joke.

It's hard to gauge whether a joke is serious on the Internet, especially when people actually think that Hillary Clinton is a murderer.

But yeah, now it's easy to tell.
 
Clearly he would have an unfortunate accident and HRC would become president within 90 days.

Seriously though I don't think he could have because apparently even to this day the Clintons still resent Obama for winning (if the hacked Colin Powell emails are true). There was too much bad blood and grudges at the time for it to work and part of what attracted Obama to Biden was their ability to get along and work together. Clinton is too ambitious to play second fiddle in a vestigial office, even if it was set up to make her the next president; really SoS was better for her ambitions, as it filled in gaps in her resume and meant she had actually responsibilities, rather than being the president's cheerleader and oft-ignored advisor on minor issues. I honest think HRC would have quietly turned down the offer.

I feel like Clinton is pragmatic enough to see the benefit of it. Maybe Obama gives her certain policy areas that she can move forward on, similar to how Bill gave her healthcare?
 

Deleted member 1487

I feel like Clinton is pragmatic enough to see the benefit of it. Maybe Obama gives her certain policy areas that she can move forward on, similar to how Bill gave her healthcare?
I think the situation was too fresh at the time for pragmatism to reign. It would feel like far too much of a pity move and probably inflame the situation, plus Obama wouldn't want her around in that role because they would have problems working together, plus she had a LOT less Congressional experience than Biden, which is why Obama picked him. He knew that he needed the relationships and knowledge of how the Senate and Congress worked to get things done, which Biden had, who has also far less polarizing than Clinton. Of course Obama was totally blindsided by the McConnell insurgency in the Senate, so was unprepared. I also don't buy the argument that Hillary Clinton is the most prepared person to ever run for the presidency. Her very limited Congressional experience wasn't that positive, she failed to get healthcare reform done and had a safe Democratic seat in the Senate for 1-1/3rd terms. She was actually a terrible choice for Obama as an advisor and actually needed one herself. Plus she was the loser of the primary to a comparative no-name like Obama, so she'd really only be useful to unify the party, but that really wasn't necessary at the time and using her for the SoS position was just as good, plus he got her out of the direct way, gave her autonomy, and gave her a position she could leverage for her own run. Hillary is not an experienced or capable politician, nor a good soldier for another politician, she is an ambitious political animal that wants her own power, which makes her terrible for the VP pick; Hillary is a policy wonk and hard worker, so the SoS position was actually probably the best position to put her in to get get the most use out of her talents, plus then help mollify her and Bill so they helped Obama's campaign and set her up for her own run again if she wanted.

I think Hillary as VP would be a terrible choice that both Obama and Clinton would hate the dynamic of, which is why it was never considered; Obama needed a guy like Biden as VP.
 
Two thoughts:

1) Early on in the Obama administration Biden was seen as instrumental in passing the legislative agenda through Congress thanks to decades-long relationships he had developed on Capitol Hill. If you leaven Biden in the Senate, then you're going to have to rely on VP Clinton to ensure the passage of an ambitious agenda. I foresee two problems with this approach. First, she doesn't have the same kind of wheeler-dealer relationships that Biden was able to use to grease the wheels of Congress, and second, if she disagrees with the agenda then she might not be inclined to push it very hard. And on Obama's signature issue IOTL, the PPACA, Hillary would get the credit if it still becomes law because the media will see her as the plan's biggest and most powerful advocate. (In other words, we'll still be hearing about Hillarycare rather than Obamacare, with dividends for Hillary rather than her boss.)

2) In 2016 Hillary is going to be tied to every single policy of Obama's administration. During the primaries this spring she embraced most of the Obama agenda, with a few exceptions. She was able to make exceptions because of her absence in his second term cabinet allowed her a degree of flexibility which she wouldn't have if she were still serving as his VP. TPP? She would own that; no way to weasel out of it when her boss is telling her that it has to pass. She'd own the administration's veto of the 9/11 Lawsuit bill, another move that would increase her unpopularity. Basically, she couldn't help but be trapped by Obama and his administration's positions on key issues, preventing her from being her own candidate which she really needed to do to get through the primaries this year.

In conclusion, I think that both of those points would be evident to either Obama or Clinton when the veep selection was being made. Those are pretty tremendous drawbacks for both of them, which I think precludes the option of her being selected. If she was, though, I think that Obama and Clinton are both worse off for her accepting the job.
 
Many dont realize that traditionally the Sec of State is the stepping stone to Presidency not the VP slot. Jefferson, Madison, Monroe, JQ Adams, among the most famous. When it comes to VPs going on to be pres it is rare except through death. I cant think of a single VP during the 2oth century, except Nixon, who went on to be Pres through anything except death/resignation of Pres, and even that wasnt immediately after his president.
 
Many dont realize that traditionally the Sec of State is the stepping stone to Presidency not the VP slot. Jefferson, Madison, Monroe, JQ Adams, among the most famous. When it comes to VPs going on to be pres it is rare except through death. I cant think of a single VP during the 2oth century, except Nixon, who went on to be Pres through anything except death/resignation of Pres, and even that wasnt immediately after his president.

Bush Sr? Nobody *not* Vice President has succeeded a President of the same party since Hoover, who was also the last person to become President with his previous public-service job being in the Cabinet.
 
Bush Sr? Nobody *not* Vice President has succeeded a President of the same party since Hoover, who was also the last person to become President with his previous public-service job being in the Cabinet.
In addition to that Nixon and Gore both ran to succeed the sitting President as Vice Presidents.
 

Wallet

Banned
Nixon, Humphrey, Bush Sr, Gore all ran to succeed the sitting president. I'm not including Mondale.
 
None of them won. In the history of the US, only four VP's have been elected after serving their term, and only one (George H.W. Bush) since the Civil War.

But since the Civil War, how many Sec of State have been elected President? Guess it shows how hard it is to beat an incumbent, and just become President in general.
 
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