What if Norway joined Soviet and EU?

Today, Norway is a rich country and is voted best country to live in by UN. This was not the case before WWII. But what if Norway, instead of joining NATO, becomes a part of The Soviet Union in the Cold War? And again, what if they does join EU? What changes would this make to Norway through the history, and until how it is today?
 

Cook

Banned
No Country voluntarily joined the Soviet Union or Warsaw Pact so the question becomes: What effect would there be if the Red Army were able to overrun Scandinavia in WW2?

I’m guessing there would be a hell of a lot of changes. For starters would have an army of liberation as guests for forty years and an economy that would suffer the dead hand of centralised planning for an equal period of time. Best case scenario would be something like Hungary and Czechoslovakia, worst case; Romania.
 
Umm...Finland joins the Axis, the rest of Scandinavia sends it overt aid, USSR gets really pissed off?
 
At best Norway would be like Latvia now, at worst most of it's population would be economic refugees.

"Most"? That hasn't happened to any ex-Soviet country, nor any ex-Warpac country. If "like Latvia" means "30-40% Russophone" I beg to disagree.

I consider the question rather a bizarre one. "Joining the Soviet Union" is I presume a misunderstanding, and joining Warpac... unlikely.

What people often fail to realise in these discussions is that the Soviets did liberate part of Norway. Rather than establishing the Glorious Independent People's Democratic Socialist All-Around Great Republic of the Icy Finnmark Wastes, they did the sensible thing and went home.

As for the Soviet overruning all Norway for some reason, I don't see it. The OTL operation was essentially a pursuit to seal off the northern seam between German forces in Norway and the Finns. A large-scale march down Norway would be a logistical nightmare. The Soviets can eat the guts out of Germany before they can get halfway down Norway, which is why they wont waste forces that could be fighting the real German armies.

Finland was a member of the Axis, from the Soviet point of view: the technicalities of military control, intentions, and treaties become less important when a country has invaded your own and been resposnible for the death of your countrymen. This didn't make them any more determined to squash it, which they certainly could have done: what's a few more dead Red Army men to Stalin? "Resources not being directed against the main enemy in order to pursue a useless grudge when I could just sign a treaty removing all threat to Leningrad right now" is what: Stalin had no problems sending his soldiers to their doom, but he wasn't an idiot.

And as for Scandinavian aid, we were taking apart German guns and finding "Made in Sweden" on the parts as it was. There was some ill-feeling, but invading Sweden over it would have been crazy.
 

Oddball

Monthly Donor
Excellent responce

What people often fail to realise in these discussions is that the Soviets did liberate part of Norway. Rather than establishing the Glorious Independent People's Democratic Socialist All-Around Great Republic of the Icy Finnmark Wastes, they did the sensible thing and went home.

As for the Soviet overruning all Norway for some reason, I don't see it. The OTL operation was essentially a pursuit to seal off the northern seam between German forces in Norway and the Finns. A large-scale march down Norway would be a logistical nightmare. The Soviets can eat the guts out of Germany before they can get halfway down Norway, which is why they wont waste forces that could be fighting the real German armies.

Thanks! :)

Finaly someone who grasps Norwegian history, Norwegian geograhy AND Norwegian infrastructure!

All three in one! :eek::D
 
Today, Norway is a rich country and is voted best country to live in by UN. This was not the case before WWII. But what if Norway, instead of joining NATO, becomes a part of The Soviet Union in the Cold War? And again, what if they does join EU? What changes would this make to Norway through the history, and until how it is today?

a) Norway by 1945 was a fairly poor country, buth with a long democratic and "western" tradition. A Soviet takeover would be very different than conquering the far less democratic/rule of law/"western" countries like Rumania or Estonia. My guess is mass flight to UK and/or Sweden followed by the same depressing history that the WP countries had until the Soviet Union fell around 1990. Poverty, secret police, censorship and destruction of the civil society.

b) Thankfully, the above is extremly unlikely to happen. The allied gave Soviet "sphere of influence" in eastern europe and Balkans, where the Red Army would roll through anyway. But Norway was never on the negotiation table. Also, as has been mentioned, it would be a logistic nightmare for the Soviets to advance south through the narrow parts of Norway. Sweden would never give any rights of passage, and Finland would probably re-start the war (since a Soviet Norway more or less meant a Soviet Finland). It would also be fairly easy for the US or British to land forces in Southern Norway. The experiences UK had had with enemy ships in Norwegian ports during WW2 was nothing they wanted to repeat.
 

Redbeard

Banned
I think there was a fear in Norway and Denmark, both before and after the German capitulation, that local communists with Soviet aid would try to take over power in a coup-like action and utilising the power vacuum after a German capitulation.

I'm not into details on the situation in Norway, but in Denmark it became an increasing priority in the non-communist part of the resistance movenment to prevent a communist take-over at or after a German capitulation. The Danish Brigade raised, trained and equipped in Sweden among Danish refugees probably had this as its real 1st priority.

AFAIK Sweden had plans for an intervention in Norway towards end of WWII, not just in a German "Endkampf", but also to keep local communists at bay. Perhaps Oddball or other Norwegians have more info.

Regards

Steffen Redbeard
 

Oddball

Monthly Donor
IAFAIK Sweden had plans for an intervention in Norway towards end of WWII, not just in a German "Endkampf", but also to keep local communists at bay. Perhaps Oddball or other Norwegians have more info.

Im sorry, but Im not terrible enlightened abot this particular part of Norewegian history :eek:

The communist party (NKK) got 12% of the national votes in 45, and in Finnmark they were very, very strong.

I doubt the ability for the NKP to seize power. Wether there was a presumed or rational fear of it, Im not sure. Right now Im on winter hollidsy, and do not have access to my refernce books... :(
 
Hmm, I wonder how a Soviet Norway would handle the language question? Would they continue with Samnorsk, or would they choose between Bokmål and Nynorsk?
 
I think that if the soviets wen with the conquering of Norway for whatever reason the US and Britain would go toSouth Norway and a situation of divided Norway would result.:eek:
 
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