What if New Zealand acquired a fleet of fast jet combat air craft circa 2000

I recall some discussion of the F16's that were intended for Pakistan likely needing some form of modernization as well at some point.
My understanding is that they would have entered service as/is, with a standard F-16 MLU package intended somewhere down the line.
 
Here is the story.
That said initially NZMoD and Government was on board, but that was because NZ hadn't bought fighter for almost 30 years so was ignorant of the true costs. When they started looking into it they found everything cost a million bucks: tech pubs a million, 5 user groups 1 million each, engine hush kits 1 million each etc etc etc. It was after this became apparent that the deal fell over.
More that an incoming government was fundamentally ideologically opposed to the deal rather than any ignorance. It's own commissioned report into it recommended a reduced buy rather than outright cancellation.
 
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I think he meant the Australian's are introducing the 35 so Canada is getting the older 18's from Australia while the Canada figures out what the hell they want...
Yeah it is kind of ironic that the Canadians initially bought 138 f18's to Australia's 80 IIRC and had an F5 force as well until after the Cold War era and now Canada is acquiring used Australian F18's while Australia has acquired super hornets and F35's :)
 
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Marc

Donor
Sorry, I'm puzzled, what is the plausible reason for New Zealand needing anything more than an extended range Coast Guard?
 
Sorry, I'm puzzled, what is the plausible reason for New Zealand needing anything more than an extended range Coast Guard?
Defending NZ interests, which isn't necessarily the same as local defence (which the NZDF has never been capable of on it's own).
 

Marc

Donor
Defending NZ interests, which isn't necessarily the same as local defence (which the NZDF has never been capable of on it's own).
Okay, and what are New Zealand strategic interests? Are there offshore oil fields that we haven't heard about?
 
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Okay, and what are New Zealand strategic interests? Are there offshore oil fields that we haven't heard about?
Fight for the USA so the USA fights for New Zealand if NZ is under military attack.

Considering the USA is in a state of perpetual warfare and NZ is not, it's not necessarily a good proposition.
 

Errolwi

Monthly Donor
Okay, and what are New Zealand strategic interests? Are there offshore oil fields that we haven't heard about?
Having functioning and stable international trade networks, so stuff can be imported and exported. Not having super-tankers being attacked by pirates, for instance, even if that specific tanker isn't going to NZ. Or Singapore existing as a trading hub.
 
RCAF went to Bosnia, but we've been busy since 2003.
Yeah... I was probably a bit hasty with that response. I suspect in recent years the RAAF has done a lot :)

In any event counting up the number of bombs dropped is probably not a great metric, and both Canada and Australia have more than done their share of bombing over the last few decades and their tax payers have gotten good value out of their F18 fleets :)
 
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Fight for the USA so the USA fights for New Zealand if NZ is under military attack.

Considering the USA is in a state of perpetual warfare and NZ is not, it's not necessarily a good proposition.
I'd say it is more fight along side other western nations..
 
Having functioning and stable international trade networks, so stuff can be imported and exported. Not having super-tankers being attacked by pirates, for instance, even if that specific tanker isn't going to NZ. Or Singapore existing as a trading hub.
And if you want those things, you want maritime patrol aircraft and coast guard ships, not the prestige acquisition of modern fast jets.
 
Fight for the USA so the USA fights for New Zealand if NZ is under military attack.
It would require more of a guarantee that the US would do that, rather than the wishy-washy provisions under the A**US pact which NZ was expelled from. A "conference" if you are threatened just doesn't wash it IMO.
 

Marc

Donor
And if you want those things, you want maritime patrol aircraft and coast guard ships, not the prestige acquisition of modern fast jets.
Just so. Why I mentioned that a task appropriate military force would be a Coast Guard with extended range capacity along with, your noting, the utility of maritime patrol aircraft should be more than than sufficient to serve New Zealand's needs. It would end up costing the same, but you really do get a lot more bang for your buck.
 
Does anyone else think that NZ free riding off the Australian taxpayer for defence has something to do with Greg and Trevor Chappell?
 
And if you want those things, you want maritime patrol aircraft and coast guard ships, not the prestige acquisition of modern fast jets.
And yet other western nations seem willing to send fast jets to bomb various targets in various parts of the world ?
 
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As for the Strategic Interests of NZ, as much as I love cool shit like F16s threats drive Defence Policy and Defence Policy drives acquisition. In the late Cold War era up to the last couple of years NZ's region has been amazingly benign. In the 80s the Kiwis could do their part to make the SWPac a touch difficult for Cold War adversaries to wander around freely but after the Cold War that requirement vanished so the fast jet requirement vanished too.

However it appears this is over and less benign influences are penetrating the NZ strategic region, in particular Chinese belt and road debt-traps in New Zealand's neighbourhood. NZ might well have to reinvent the capability they dropped in 1999 to increase the risk to malignant influences operating in the SWPac.
 
As for the Strategic Interests of NZ, as much as I love cool shit like F16s threats drive Defence Policy and Defence Policy drives acquisition. In the late Cold War era up to the last couple of years NZ's region has been amazingly benign. In the 80s the Kiwis could do their part to make the SWPac a touch difficult for Cold War adversaries to wander around freely but after the Cold War that requirement vanished so the fast jet requirement vanished too.

However it appears this is over and less benign influences are penetrating the NZ strategic region, in particular Chinese belt and road debt-traps in New Zealand's neighbourhood. NZ might well have to reinvent the capability they dropped in 1999 to increase the risk to malignant influences operating in the SWPac.
Rather than buying fast jets, a better plan would be to be providing the development aid that the Belt and Road plan represents, yeah ?

Note that the other two partners in ANZUS are busy going Lalalalalalaaaaaaaaaa domestic concerns are more important and we dont do soft power lalalalalllllaaaaaa to this as well.

Or, you know, paying for very very expensive slow jets in the case of Australia.
 
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