What if: Native American Ballistae

In the Saga of Vinland, there is a mention of pretty large "warslings" used by the natives:
"It was a furious battle, for the savages had warslings to help them. Karlsevni and Snorri watched them lift up a pole with a huge knob on the end, black in color, and about the size of a sheep's belly, which flew up on land over the heads of the men, and made a frightening noise when it fell."​
In an 1884 book describing the culture and history of Native Americans (pg. 73):
"Ballista, or Demon's Head. — Algonkin tradition affirms that in ancient times, during the fierce wars which the Indians carried on, they constructed a very formidable instrument of attack, by sewing up a large round boulder in a new skin. To this a long handle was tied. When the skin dried, it became very tight around the stone, and, after being painted with devices, assumed the appearance and character of a solid globe upon a pole. This formidable instrument was borne by several warriors, who acted as ballisters. Plunged upon a boat or canoe, it was capable of sinking it. Brought down among a group of men on a sudden, it produced consternation and death."​
(Further historical discussion of this on AskHistorians. I got the idea from there.)

Let's say that the stories of this device have some truth to them. (The Sagas were pretty untrustworthy, but an unfamiliar swinging weapon doesn't seem like something a Norse or Algonquin storyteller would invent--it's not a mythological beast or anything).

What if the natives of northeastern North America continued to develop this device, possibly even adding a wheeled cart to it? (Vikings introducing the wheel and cart.)

Obviously, this ballista/sling/catapult would not compare to cannons. But as it would provide a considerable advantage in warfare, its use might expand outward. Native cities in the East Coast weren't very dense, but it still might be necessary to build walls around larger ones. If the ballista spreads to the Mississippian cultures, who had much larger cities, then they might start building sophisticated fortifications. If it makes it to the densely populated Mesoamerica, polities with a great deal of resources for war, siege technology might start evolving as quickly as in the Middle Ages.

After all there were a full 500 years between the settlement of Vinland and the Spanish arrival in Mexico.

What if the conquistadors encountered a Mesoamerica and Gulf Coast where most large cities had walls around them, and experience with several types of siege engines? Maybe native polities would more quickly adopt gunpowder and cannons as well, since they'd already have some sort of artillery.
 
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Sounds like they could use the traction trebuchet, which was known to everyone in the Old World, from China to Scandinavia. You don't even need wheeled carts. It can be assembled on the spot and broken down to be carried by porters.

For defending Tenochtitlan against Cortez's boats, even the simple staff sling would be useful. There was a battle in Medieval England where defenders attacked enemy ships with quicklime launched by staff slings. The quicklime struck the decks and created a haze of caustic powder that burnt the eyes of sailors on deck, forcing a retreat. Quicklime of course was well known to MesoAmericans for the making of concrete.
 
Ballistae? Aren't those descriptions of a staff sling (or even just a war flail)? One was only used in the East and the other had not been invented yet in Europe IIRC, which would explain why the Vikings didn't know it.
 
Theres good reason to believe that the Skrælings were actually Dorset 'Eskimo', in which case the idea that they used what weapons they had handy, namely harpoons with attached floats, makes more sense of the scene than many other expllanations.

The translation youre using gives an impression of something the size of a caber, whichh I think isnt supported by the original text.

If, and I repeat IF, the locals were actually Beothuk, the most assuredly diidnt have any fancy weapons, as they were one of the most primitive 'Indian' nations on the continent. They didnt have any agriculture nor even pottery, unlike, eg the Cree.

NB: Dorset were the 'Eskimo' culture before the Thule culture, which latter is (or became) the modern Inuit, and thus are not refered tto as Inuit.
 
I agree with Dathi that the weapon sounds more like a harpoon or a rod with a sack on the end than anything large or having a range beyond what could be thrown.

But anyway lets assume that this ballista/sling/catapult exists. Without metal they're going to be very difficult to construct and mostly not as strong as old world counterparts since metal joints and ratcheting mechanisms won't be possible. Many settlements in the new world were already walled with wooden palisades and in Europe wooden walls were sufficient well into the Middle Ages to defend against attackers. I don't think you're going to see much change in N. America as adding a ditch to the existing palisade is going make it about as defensible as it's going to get. Remember that it's a hugely labor intensive process made even worse since they're using stone tools and many of even the larger settlements were only occupied part of the year.

You're likely to get much more use out of it in Central or South America with large permanent cities and standing armies. There though they already build stone walls and fortifications. A heavy weapon would be very useful in sieges but it isn't going to remake warfare there.
 

Rstone4

Banned
That kind of construction requires knowledge geometry and most likely metal working.

Did any native american civilizations have evidence of any mathematics beyond basic accounting and astronomy?

They were good stone workers, but their metal work was only ornamental. How much wood work did they engage in?
 
That kind of construction requires knowledge geometry and most likely metal working.

Did any native american civilizations have evidence of any mathematics beyond basic accounting and astronomy?

They were good stone workers, but their metal work was only ornamental. How much wood work did they engage in?
The Vikings did build traction trebuchets, though.

The Norse could probably introduce metalworking. Natives already had woodwork, but the lack of real metal tools would be an issue.
 
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I've often thought the stone walls and crew served weapons would be sufficient to stop the tiny numbers of Conquistadors who spearheaded the invasion of Mexico and Peru. A torsion ballista or traction trebuchet could outrange the arquebus and arbalest of the Spanish and kill them and their horses where masses of poorly armed and armoured troops couldn't. Even if 1 in 1000 shots hit a Spaniard or his horse the Aztecs would only need to fire 500,000 missiles to decimate Cortez's force. That sounds like a lot, but 100 engines firing 100 shots a day would use up 500,000 missiles in 50 days, not much when Cortez' campaign took years.
 
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